A survey conducted by the National Science Foundation asked Americans some basic science questions to determine American science literacy. Guess what? One in four Americans didn’t know of or hold to a heliocentric view of our solar system—they didn’t know the earth went around the sun.
Who knows what these unscientific Americans actually think is going on between the earth and the sun. Perhaps they never think about it. It probably doesn’t make much of a difference from one day to the next. The sun still rises and sets for these people, in spite of their ignorance.
I also have to question the validity of this survey. It said 48 percent of Americans were ignorant of the “fact” that humans evolved from lower animals. Listen to this pronouncement from TIME:
And the fact that only 74 percent of participants knew that the Earth revolved around the sun is perhaps less alarming than the fact that only 48 percent knew that humans evolved from earlier species of animals.
I’m very aware of the theories of evolution. I know more than most so-called scientists do about the development of evolutionary myth. I don’t believe macro-evolution is scientifically defensible. Does that mean I am not scientifically literate? Not necessarily.
But, to be completely honest, I am not frightened as much by American ignorance as I am by the fact that Americans uncritically approve of all things “science” by default.
According to this same survey, ninety percent of unscientific Americans believe “the benefits of science outweigh any dangers.” This is a recipe for disaster. The vast majority of Americans know very little about science in actuality. Couple that with unbridled enthusiasm, and you know what you have? A cult, that’s what.
We live in a culture that implicitly trusts anyone in a white lab coat. Consensus science is regularly used now to manipulate politics (e.g., climate change). How does our current scientific priesthood differ from the astronomer priests of Babylon or the architect priests of Egypt? They really don’t.
How
does our current scientific priesthood differ from the astronomer
priests of Babylon or the architect priests of Egypt? They really don’t.
Read more at http://lastresistance.com/4780/unscientific-americans-1-4-dont-know-earth-orbits-sun/#siZ3eT6mGc5XKVLB.99
the ancient Egyptians also knew how to create electricity.
yeah, static electricity.
Scientific “Priesthood”? Don’t insult scientists. They do not spew ridiculous BS and ask you to take it on “Faith” If a scientist does not know something they say “we do not know, but we are looking” Fortunately, today we have tools like the Hubble Telescope, and soon we will have the Webb which has a 30 foot parabolic reflector. It is an exciting time for those with an inquisitive mind.
It is always in exciting time for those with an inquisitive mind… Or are you one of the simple thinking people, whom beliefs we are living in the best time every, we will never advanced any more? Egyptian had real electricity… your comment above shows you do not have much knowledge in this area. No, not in power lines like today, but they could control small amounts in box… It what they used to Gold plate items, and yes a lot of their items are not solid gold as first believed but gold plated.
Do not insult Priest. So of the top scientists in this current age are Priest. The teach at universities and continue to study and have a lot of time to study since they do not have a family to raise and take care of. Most currently used rubber tires have to give credit to a Priest that made development in rubber while he worked at Norte Dame. The same type of credit goes to a Priest for development of plastics, but he worked at Saint Joseph’s College in Indiana. Many advances in medical field go to priest (if you do not think so, think about how many hospital are run by a Christian church – you do not think they would have someone else run their investment and you do not think they would have someone run the hospital that was clueless about the medical field do you? ) and of course many of fields. Remember it was a priest in the Roman Catholic Church the developed and created the scientific method…
That’s true. It was actually a priest from Belgium that proposed that the universe is expanding. He convinced Einstein that he was wrong regarding the Universe. Einstein applauded him and changed his mind. See? even the brightest scientific mind can admit they were wrong about something and move forward. Most priests today believe in evolution, but a lot of these same priests believe in transubstantiation. Go figure. I guess its Ala Carte, you get to take one from column A, and one from column B like a menu at a Chinese take out.
Well I believe there is a lot of truth in a lot of things… we just have a hard time seeing the whole, because we are part of the very thing we are studying. Example: Evolution, on micro level I believe happens. Humans, if you want to call one generation taller then another a type of evolution yes (but its a trait that has always in our gene pool – like we can run up to 43 mile per hour, but know one has ever reached that speed. So, if one day people start hitting that speed it would be an advancement in the human race and a type of evolution. However, to say humans came from ape when we have no physical evidence: that is the evolution I can not believe.
Paul, you do not consider a 98.9% DNA match to be physical evidence? What would convince you then?
Look Here:
ww.amnh.org/exhibitions/past-exhibitions/human-origins/the-history-of-human-evolution
You will NEVER convince someone using facts, logic & reason if that person doesn’t believe in facts, logic or reason.
Do you know how far apart 1% is on a DNA scale. It’s like saying, “The sun is really close, we are almost the same planet/star….” You go about few more percentage point out and we match a lot animals. Even a Cat is within 10%. If we consider someone taking and test a scores 90% they usually will receive a grade of A-, which means good job you are close to prefect… if we go with that logic were cousins with the cat. Everything on this planet is going to be close in DNA, why because we were all created/developed on the same planet with the same material. Now, find us something on this planet that has some level of intelligence, moving on its own and has less then 25% in common with us, that would be a cool find (nothing to do with the current topic, but a cool find all the same).
Forget it, Paul. I give up. You win. Feel better?
There is no winning, there is just learning. If you can not listen and hear what others have to say, one will never grow and learn. You may not always like or agree with others… but it should trigger a new way of thinking or new way at looking at something. 🙂
Paul, you’re obviously not a scientists & have a very limited education at best + I’m guessing you don’t spend a great deal of your time studying evolution so, I’m curious as to why you would think you know more about evolution then the most intelligent & educated scientists on the planet that have spent their life’s studying this issue?
Bob your funny guy. Pretending to act like a smart person. Once again your are pretending to know what the majority of science know. Stop speaking for the majority of the scientific community when you are definitely not part of it, nor do you know or understand what the majority think and believe.
And yet we spend more money on “education” than most other countries, I think we need a refund.
The monetary demands of the Teacher’s unions and Lib administrators are insatiable. One wonders how it is that teachers in EVERY State can claim that another State pays more (with no mention of cost living of course).
Not just a refund, but real educators not associated with the Union. Union has paralyzed our public schools with a one shoe fits all, enter COMMON CORE, Fire the Union. Abolish it totally and let’s get back to really educating. Is the amount of time spent on sex ed. that necessary? Hey the last time I checked we have kids parenting at 14 & 15 yrs of age and the cycle continues,
Common Core should be entitled “Standards for Student Programming”.
We also send our children to school for longer periods of time and most other countries, yet they usually outscore our students. What counts in education is QUALITY, not QUANTITY – but the Libtards don’t know this.
and that sir applies to everything. It’s the quality that counts and I so agree with you, Liberals are convinced otherwise. Common Core equals COMMUNISM.
Again we see the result of Lib run schools which are now the greatest cause of Charter Schools and Home schooling. Even more scary is these people get to vote.
Instead of reviewing such short articles on this very complex issue, I encourage anyone who is interested in the facts and the state of the research concerning the origin of life, as we know it to be, to read Stuart Kauffman’s, “At Home In The Universe; The Search For The Laws of Self-Organization and Complexity”. Kauffman has is highly trained and has spent years working on this complex issue and I find his book to be the most authoritative written at this time. While leaning toward evolution, he does not rule out divine issues, that are not yet fully understood—a difficult but necessary read, if one wants to know the latest developments as to our origins.
Highly trained by whom? Priests and ministers are highly trained too. Especially those Aztec priests that had to rip out a human heart while it was still beating and hold it aloft to the sun god so he would come up the next morning.
Sound to me like our federal Department of Education is not doing its job – the job of educating Americans!!!!! And I guess these are the same people who John Kerry is talking about who still think the Earth is flat which would again be the fault of the federal Department of Education!!!!!
How do you expect the public schools to educate when there are parents that are so stupid that they still do not believe in evolution? How can a teacher teach Biology with creationism in the way? Creationist Preachers should be held criminally responsible for what they are doing to our students. Ignorance is not the fault of the Department of Education, it is the fault of ignorant, lazy parents. Wait till the home-schooled, bible fed US kids get into the world work force. They are going to be laughed right out the door.
Considering even so called smart people, like Obama, think that our medical system cures everything (actually kills about 200,000 yearly), this does not surprise me at all.
Spot Quiz: what is the single most important characteristic of a scientific fact? Anyone?
Falsifiability?
Repeatability. Whatever is theorized (before it can be claimed as fact) must be able to be repeated with the same results each time…e.g., each time you throw a rock into the air, it ALWAYS falls back to earth. Always.
Repeatability through testing
I wonder how many of these science-ignorant 25% are long time subscribers of Scientific American magazine? A once fine publication, worthy of its name. Now a repository of liberal ignorance, bordering on religious zealotry.
I’m curious, just WTF would make you think you know more about evolution than the most intelligent & highly educated scientists on the planet that have studied this issue & have mountains of evidence to support their position? The LAST thing our nation needs in a world of globalization is a population of idiots that deny science
The problem is, Bob, that most scientists have NOT “studied this issue” … (I know, because I was once there among them).
They simply “believe” evolution is true because that’s what they were taught from kindergarten on. Once I started actually “studying the issue” and asking questions of my colleagues, I realized how blinded we all were. No one wanted to discuss any of the many, many problems of evolutionary theory because it was a “closed issue” in their minds. On what basis? Because it was something others have already proven. And they chose to believe their teachers and their peers rather than actually look into it.
And here’s the BIG problem, Bob: Once I started actually examining the so-called “mountains of evidence” to support the position of evolution, I discovered (to my dismay) that the “mountains” of evidence are mere “molehills”, and not very cohesive or coherent at that. When I confronted my colleagues and even some of my old professors, they dismissed my questions as needless worry. And then they carefully orchestrated a black-ball campaign behind my back to discredit men … and ultimately, to silence me. All because they didn’t want to face the truth that evolution is built on very tenuous evidence.
So, Bob, you’re right that most scientists are “intelligent & highly educated”, but that doesn’t grant them wisdom automatically. Wisdom is only gained when you use your intelligence and education wisely.
And that’s “WTF” almost anyone can “know” more about evolution that these scientists, Bob, if they do just a little research. Because the top scientists don’t bother to look at the basis of their beloved theory of evolution anymore … they believe it by faith.
If in fact you are a scientist & you can prove evolution wrong why don’t you? NOBODY is holding you back & fame, fortune & a Nobel Prize await you if you do. I don’t believe for a second you’re a scientist simply because
scientists do not BELIEVE in evolution. They ACCEPT it because of the enormous
pile of data supporting it. Just like they accept that gravity follows an inverse
square law, matter is composed of atoms, germs cause disease, and moving
electrons constitute electricity. Scientific theories are not a faith. You can
test them yourself and falsify them.
“But as by THIS THEORY innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we NOT find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?” -Charles Darwin
Most of us laypersons have been led to believe that prehistoric fossils and the THEORY of evolution are mutually supportive. BUT, surprisingly, not so; and, the FOSSILS are probably the intransigent evolutionary theorists themselves. Why? Because evolutionary theorists have been, and continue to be, embarrassed and stone-faced about the lack of “missing link” fossils that would prove how plants and/or animals slowly and gradually changed (evolved) to other, higher, forms. If evolution is true, we would have museums full of gazillions of these “intermediary” fossils. Strangely, (not!) the links are missing because they don’t exist. If they do exist, paleontologists can only hope to content themselves with the idea that they don’t need to prove anything (the null hypothesis) – they can just sit tight and be “right” until proven otherwise). Nevertheless, the missing links (transitional forms) are still missing – by the millions and billions. And where are the dead-end links that didn’t make it through the “transition” because “evolution” dealt them an unplayable hand? Also missing.
The diversity, complexity, abundance, and especially the elegance of life on planet earth point inexorably to their being created. Although creation can’t be proven
(’tis yet impossible to go back beyond the big bang of “Light: BE!”), but it can be believed. The kicker here, is that Creation requires a Creator. Heaven forbid, that might be God!
There is no “missing link” & ONLY an uneducated idiot that has zero understanding of how evolution works expects to find one.
Well, you certainly have a way with words…mostly angry and self-aggrandizing…especially as you are calling Charles Darwin an uneducated idiot. Read his quote again about the “transitional forms” that he said “…must have existed…” I don’t know what your background is, but I’m guessing it has nothing to do with human relations.
To use your own argument…if, in the theory of evolution, there is no such thing as a transitional form: prove it. You’ll be famous!
You may not be aware of it but unlike religion science advances with time & has learned a great deal since Darwin
but the still haven’t proven their “theorys” they are still guessing.
No, they are not guessing, they are testing. Our human DNA is a 98.8% match to the chimpanzees. Less evidence is required to convict in a criminal case.
You know Bob, I find it incredible that there are actually people that still do not believe in evolution in this country, but I guess I should not be surprised, I mean look at the people that get elected. Most of them are Morons, and a good number of them are certifiable. Look at Palin, Bachmann, and Pelosi. Moron, Idiot, and moronic idiot. Maybe Ted Haggert ought to run for office then we will have it all, a Hypocritical Gay Christian Evangelist. What a freak show this country has become.
Sooo…since you must be one of the self-proclaimed, highly-educated, secular, latter day Illuminati, please elucidate: (1) how does evolution REALLY work (theoretically, of course), and (2) WHY would we uneducated idiots be the ONLY dolts to expect to find evidence of transitional life forms?
Because the transition takes place over tens of thousands of years!!! The changes are extremely subtle. What don’t you get about this? This is as stupid as saying “Ok, so why do we still have apes?
All you creationists are the same. You simply cannot grasp the concept of enormous expanses of time, based on our clock, which is man made to make sure you get to work on time.
Agreed: because you theorize that the transitions take place over tens of thousands of years, the changes would necessarily be extremely small. But, for argument’s sake, suppose evolution is true, and that it takes 100 million years for a prehistoric critter’s eyes to transition from the sides of the head to the front (for better binocular vision and depth perception: survival). At various times during the 100M-year transition, there would be these same critters whose eyes had made it only 1/3 or 1/2 or 3/4 of the way to the front. Are you saying that critters with eyes at some transitional stage would never make it into the fossil record? Why not?
Oh, yes, we creationists DO have a concept of great expanses of time…beginning and ending with eternity (there’s a conundrum for you). We don’t all believe in the Young Earth theory. We also understand that time is just humans’ attempt to measure eternity…the unmeasurable; and, that we can’t measure nor know what existed an instant before Creation (or the big bang…whatever you want to call it). The universe did have a beginning…the universe is constantly expanding from a singular point. I believe God is the Creator of it all. Why does that make you so angry? I’m not angry that you don’t believe it…
Why would they start on the sides of the head in the first place? You know, a fluke and a flounder begin with their eyes on both sides, then they move to the top side which is like camouflage, while the bottom is stark white. This happens rapidly as they grow. Amazing.
I am not angry. Again, there may very well be a god, but he/she/it is nothing like what we have been sold over the years. The god portrayed in the Bible is too small, too vindictive, too psycopathic, too trivial, and too self serving (First three commandments) “Human” if you will, for me to believe. Maybe he is just the one Moses or Abraham heard when he was Hallucinating from dehydration? I don’t know.
The thing that bothers me about all of the monothiestic religions is that they all act like they DO know, and they preach and judge others based on revelations supposedly revealed to a single individual, that has no proof whatsoever. Its always the same.
Religion has been used as the basis for wars, torture, and ethnic cleansing over the years, and now it is being used for terror (Islam)
It also does some people a lot of good, but that does not mean that you cannot do good without it. I don’t buy the born bad routine. Too much of a guilt trip.
So I guess you have not heard of the Gnome project huh? Scientists do not take anything on faith.
Faith is: “I know there is no proof, but just take my word for it, or you are going to burn in hell” OK whats Hell? “Its this place that you are sent to where you burn forever” OK Why? “Because you had filthy thoughts about that hot mama down the street” Yeah but hey, I didn’t even do anything! Yes you did, you thought about her! Damn, now I did too, so we are both going to hell.
Getting a chemistry set in 7th grade does not make you a “Scientist”
what we also do not need is a bunch of carnival hucksters, yelling that the world is burning up, jezze haven’t you seen the weather lately? guess al gore is hiding in a closet because of that,
Do you ever wonder why the same idiots that deny climate change also believe the planet is 6,000 years old?
i don’t remember anyone claiming the planet is only 6,000 years old, i wonder where you got that information from? in the bible there are a list of people and it also gives their age {the 1599 Geneva Bible} but it does not say that the planet was the same age as Adam, if you take the trouble to follow it thru the generations you will find that for the most part it is referring to the Hebrews, sort of a family tree type of thing, but i does state that Cain was banished for his father and mother and went some place and found himself a wife. so the question becomes, how long was his wives people there before Cain found them, and there is another place where it give a relationship to our prospective of time, and it states that one day of our time could well be 1,000 years. you can say an apple is sweet and so is and orange but they are two very different things. and also just a point, every location that has been stated in the Bible has turned out to be a fact, not some wild theory. but you believe as you wish, but here is the big one What if your wrong and there is a God? and one of the smartest men who every lived was convinced that there is. Albert Eisenstein. 1879/1995
If I’m wrong & there is a god then the next problem is which god. The chances of any one particular god being the “one true” god are over 10,000 to one AND if you’re caught worshipping the wrong one you’re in deep shit.
well bob i guess the will be up to you, i’m not in the god business, but almost all of the western religions stem from one source, the dogma of each is a bit different, but basically they are the same, they all seem to follow the ten commandments even if they don’t call them that, so it would seem to me as long as a person followed those it would not matter what sect they belong to. and just a thought do you every buy a lottery ticket? if so the odds on winning that are far greater that 10,000 to one. also i have not heard of 10,000 different religions, i wonder where you got that from i would like to follow up on it. that does not include the muslums/islamist, but they are a whole different matter, the preach hate murder putridity deceit pedophilia, and a lot of other vile things no other group teaches. and lastly are you willing to take a chance that there is no God? what if your wrong? on the other hand if you believe there is an you live by those things that most Christians try to live by and there is no god what have you lost? nothing, you get the same as every one else a hole in the ground or ashes in a jar if that is your wish. but if there is a god look at all you will have gained.
Concerning the origin of Cain’s wife, please consider Genesis 5:4: “And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years, and he begat sons and daughters.”
that is so but then later on no one but Noah, his wife and his three sons and their wives were killed in the flood. so as far as Adam and Eve and all their grand kids are concerned they are a moot point.
The chance of a species containing only 5 subjects when the life span in the wild must have been about 20 years is about a billion, billion, billion, to one. How can you possibly believe this drivel???
Oh yeah thats right, god fixed it. He’s the eternal ace up the sleeve, right?
Bullshit. Einstein was a Pantheist at best. Of course the places in the bible are actual, it is myth mixed with fact. The people who wrote the bible had the benefit of hindsight, so they could redact it. Its so people like you say “Hey, there really is an Iraq, which was the fertile crescent, so everything they say must be true” What the hell kind of logic is that?
what a dumb ass you really are. but that is your problem not mine. as far a Iraq is concerned been there done that.
“The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”
Albert Einstein, Letter to philosopher Eric Gutkind, January 3, 1954
Einsteins reference to “God” was not in regard to a personal God. It was in reference to something very much bigger.
Iraq is considered the cradle of civilization. My point was that Mixing in actual places, and telling stories about what happened there is not at all unusual. Example: King Arthur and the knights of the round table.
well others may try to convince you about god, but not me, that is your choice not mine, but i do believe like some of native American Indians “That the white mans god is to small” and i also don’t think he takes sides in our disputes. seems that the whole thing is just some cosmic comical opera, but we just don’t realize it.
We are saying the same thing, and I completely agree with the native Americans “The white mans god is too small ” In fact, I agree of all of what they said. Read “Touch the Earth”
It is so clear to me that ALL man made gods were invented to control and usurp wealth and power from the masses, that it is hard for me to understand how other people fall for it. I know why they do, its their ego. They cannot visualize a world without them, so they have to think that they are going to “Pop out” on the other side when they expire here.
You will note that so called leaders that start wars never fight in them right? The only way that you could get the masses to fight in wars is if they believe they are going to wake up “On the other side” Look at what the Muslim Terror Bombers do.
Ken Ham did
well i don’t know ken ham, but anyone that would play with snakes can’t be to bright.
No
With weather, they are talking about the mean temperature over time, not what it is doing just this winter. Don’t you know this? This is what vexes people about evolution. the Human life span is so short that most people cannot grasp the time frame, especially when they buy into the 6,000-10,000 year BS perpetrated by the Bible. It took man about 200,000 years to get where we are today, and we really aren’t that far along judging by the fact that there are still wars, and by a lot of the comments on this site.
You know why people go the religion route? Because their ego simply cannot entertain the fact that they will no longer exist after they die. They spend their whole life worrying about where they are going next instead of enjoying the one they have now. And its all because of religion. You better stop and smell the roses. Work can wait.
I flat out do not believe the stats, period.
What stats???
Statistics 1 in 4, come on seriously? The idea that 1/4 of Americans believes the sun travels around the earth is preposterous.
I never said that, maybe someone else did. I did say that about 45% of Americans still do not believe in evolution though, so the heliocentric argument would not surprise me at all. Bible bangers never cease to amaze me, and that’s where the Flat Earth comes from. When you brainwash a kid, its hard to change the tune, especially when the same old input is repeated throughout their lives. Ignorance is Bliss, so being a happy idiot is pretty popular I guess.
As a Christian and a believer of evolution ,plus amateur astronomer your argument is invalid, when it comes to ignorance. Look at the title of this article, you said what stats???
When society brain washes a kid into thinking he/she has no higher power to look up to, well shit literally happens. I don’t know how old you are? I am in my mid 50’s respect and politeness towards your neighbor has plummeted since I was a kid. Since that time socialism and atheism have been on the rise. The two parent household has slowly declined, now 45% of kids are born to a one parent family, mom, no dad to be seen.
I have looked at some of your other posts, and am not impressed. A Happy idiot is a Democrat on the pubic teat. Public schools tend to look down on minorities and tell them they have no chance! So they stop trying to learn! This is all to the benefit of the political party, that will give them anything no matter what, the cost for their vote.
I will happily side with the bible thumpers, ok not really as I think the bible should be shown some respect. Never the less the belief in something greater than mankind has a definite benefit for all society.
Your response is all over the place Allen. What exactly are you trying to say?
What I said was that 45% of Americans still do not believe in Evolution, in spite of a mountain of evidence for it.
You talk about the single parent family, which is about 75% among Blacks, and 24% among whites. This is a definite social problem that stems from a ridiculous welfare system that is broken, and a lack of jobs, because we elect people to office that sell out the country.
I do not believe that kids should be told folklore BS like the 7 day creationist story. If you believe in evolution then you cannot believe the creationist story either, so I guess that drives a wedge into the typical christian god story. Maybe that’s what you are getting at?
I never said anything about telling kids that they do not have a higher power. I apparently just have a much different idea of what that power is than you do. Mine is not narcissistic, vindictive, jealous, or judgmental. In fact, it has no human traits at all, that would make the entity way too trivial.
I really think that truth and the golden rule is the way to go. They lost me way back at original sin in about the 4th grade. You cant teach all merciful, then tell you that you are a sinner when you don’t even know what the hell it means.
The idea that you decide how other people should hold belief is astounding! The catholic church the largest Christian denomination has said Evolution and Creationism go hand in hand. The 7 day creationist story obviously was not talking about revolutions of the Earth you believe what you want , I’m not a great Christian I don’t care that much about atheists, you have chosen your fate. I know I should feel different, what can I say , I’m a sinner!
Did you look at the headline of this article? My original post was I didn’t believe that 1 in 4 people didn’t know the earth revolved around the sun. You brought up Bible thumpers and flat earth, not me! In case you don’t realize it Kids are being brainwashed at public schools across the US. As a parent I have to combat this along with the moral degradation of society! Church and the Bible produces a stable caring population unlike secularism, which does the opposite. I do not view the government as the higher power and answer to all our needs, that would be Gods job.
Just in case there is something left worth saving, if you want Gods mercy, all you have to do is ask.
OK so you think it is OK to lie to children, just so you cloak it with Morality???? Isn’t Lieing Immoral in your world? So now 7 days does not really mean 7 days ???
It not about belief, it is about truth. What is so wrong with telling the truth?
You can have morality without religion. Especially if the religion is mostly fabrication, but if you believe that you would not know right from wrong without it, then go for it. I just do not understand the paradox.
Ill leave you with this:
In 1886the theologian Emil Schürer, in his monumental study A History of the Jewish People in the Time of Jesus Christ, closely criticized
the traditional view. He raised five points which showed, he believed, that the Luke account could not be historically accurate:
Nothing is known in history ofa general census by Augustus
In a Roman census Joseph would not have had to travel to Bethlehem, and Mary would not have had to travel at all;
No Roman census would have been
made in Judea during the reign of Herod;
Josephus records no such census, and it would have been a notable innovation;
Quirinius was not governor of Syria until long after the reign of Herod.
The suggested alternative translations have been described as “implausible” and “almost impossible”
Most
modern scholars explain the disparity as an error on the part of the author of the Gospel, concluding that he was more concerned with creating a symbolic narrative than a historical account and was either unaware of, or indifferent than the chronological difficulty. In The Birth of the Messiah (1977), a detailed study of the infancy narratives of Jesus, the American scholar Raymond E. Brown concluded that “this information is dubious on almost every score, despite the elaborate attempts by scholars to defend Lucan accuracy.” W. D. Davies and E. P. Sanders ascribe this to simple error: “on many points,
especially about Jesus’ early life, the evangelists were ignorant. They simply did not know, and, guided by rumor, hope or supposition, did the best they could”. Fergus Millar suggests that Luke’s narrative was a construct designed to connect Jesus with the house of David.
“They did the best they could”
They did the best they could to make Jesus Divine is what he means, and they blew it, because people are not as dumb as they thought.
Jesus was a Great and Wonderful Example of How to live. They should have left it at that. Because that was enough.
How do you get I am lying to my kid? Did anything I wrote say I disbelieved my own words? If god made the universe please tell me how 7 revolutions of our earth have anything to do with 7 of gods days , seriously I would like to know how you get there.
As to the time line of Jesus’s birth we know that was most likely in April not December as the star of Bethlehem was most probably Mars due to the counter movement as earth moved past it . Who cares!
The idea that history is perfect in any period up to the digital age , and even then is subjective.
How about you actually read some of the letters , starting with John . These are actual testaments of the people that lived then. You want to Google mistakes , go ahead you will find disagreements on everything.
these are just people with agendas , much like yourself .
As to “because people are not as dumb as they thought.” Quite right Christianity has lasted over 2000 years, why do you think that happened? By the way if its only 1992 years I still have no problem with it.
If you are as anal as you seem to be on accuracy of everything you are going to have a hard time, period.
Now going back to my original post and the reason for this discourse , The article said 1 in 4 people in the
USA believed the sun traveled around the earth. I said I did not believe it . You have yet to answer to any degree how this might be. I really do not care as I have told you about the Creation/Evolution argument , its a non issue.
I await your reply with much amusement.
I agree. I do not think that 25% of the people think that the sun travels around the earth. I don’t know where they got that from. I do not know why religions last as long as they do but here are a couple of possible reasons:
1. They are passed on to our children at a very young age when they are very impressionable, and they are inculcated all through adolescence.
2. Western civilization has a very difficult time with death. The ego simply cannot accept the fact that it does not go on after death.
3. The first book to come off the Gutenberg printing press for mass distribution was the Bible.
Now, if the Jews do not take the 7 days literally as 7 24 hour days, why is there a Shabbat, (Day of rest) Every Saturday. Now I know this might sound Anal, so are all jews and christians anal on Saturday and Sunday, every 7 days? Or is this a convenient interpretation to re-fill the coffers?
By the way, I do not for a minute think you are lying to your kids. I think you are just passing on what you have been taught.
I started questioning a lot of what I was told in parochial school a long time ago because some things seemed so unfair, and I could never understand how one Christian religion could be right, and all the others were wrong, and that was before I learned how many different religions there were.
Ok I’m going to help you , no sarcasm, I mean it.
The seven day week dates back to the stone age, 365 days divided by 7 are the closest you can get as in the 52 week year . I would have had 13 months of 28 days but with one month being longer by a day, but no one asked me. The names of our week are from pagan times, sometimes it’s impossible to change everything, so the early Christians didn’t, they co-opted things as needed, especially festivals. The early Christians were trying to change society just as we still are to a more responsible, gentler caring one. To be a Christian is to try and be as Christ like as possible, yup I fail a lot of the time, we all do. But this is why some of the numerology is a little messed up. To make it a focal point of why the ideology is wrong is to miss the point.
By the way, we are supposed to question and seek knowledge, the Lord never said not to.
As to your dislike of the different denominations, all infighting under the name of Christendom, I hate it too!
Every week we pray that the church can unite, I really wish it were so. I am Episcopalian, my wife and son are Catholic, we have friends that are Baptists, Presbyterian, Greek orthodox, a couple of Evangelicals, and a couple of Jews. Not that the Jews are part of Christianity, but we have the same God.
We all get on with each other very well and have the same value system, for the most part. Our Church hierarchy on the other hand is where the problems stem. I wish it wasn’t so, but I am a realist.
I hope this helps, sometimes it’s hard to see the bigger picture, the fight of good against evil!
I really want to be one of the good guys, I think most people do, the bible is a good guide book, some of the stories are also quite interesting.
Any way I hope you have a blessed day,
Allen.
Thanks Allen, You too
What would you bet that most of them are right-wing- Republican’ts that are home
schooled and believe,as does Ken Ham, that the world was created in 6 days.
That ever animal some how was saved on the ark, including the 60,000 species of insects that live today.
well for the test scores that have been coming out of the public schools the home schooled are getting a lot better education,
Do you have any proof of this or are we supposed to take this statement on “Faith”? You mean the home schooled kids go to school just for the tests? Or do they take the tests at home where they can look up the answers?
check out the test scores of the children in KY since common core, as even opposed to the test scores before common core.
Unless I mistake what you are saying, since the kids have to take tests like the rest of the country their scores have gone down? Is that what you mean? Common core raised the bar too high for the kids in KY?
no what i means is that the common core does not teach the kids as well as the previous type of teaching.
You mean the same tests that were used before common core was adopted were used after common core was adopted? They used the old tests with a new curriculum ????
Zagozana, Before you ridicule the Answers in Genesis position on the number of animals in the ark, I’d think you’d want to find out what that position is. Please go to their website: http://www.answersingenesis.org/search/?q=How+many+animals+on+the+Ark%3F&search=Go
I appreciate your information, but, you have to account for the number of living species that exist today. 11.3 million …
There is too much dependence on a form of magical reality that has to take place and you have to explain all the evidence that disagrees with many of these ideas.
G-d did create the Universe but He doesn’t have to fake anything. He is not trying to fool the scientists.
The Universe is about 14,600,000,000 years old and therefore it make Him much more profound then the idea that it was formed in 6 days.
———————————-
Total Number of Species Estimated in the World
Over seven million species of plants and animals live on planet earth, according to the best estimates made by biologists.
If you add in the world’s species that aren’t plants or animals,
such as lichens, mushrooms and bacteria, the total number of species leaps much higher. Tallying the estimates of all living things brings the number to 11.3 million species currently on earth.
You actually believe what they say on these Bible Banging sights???
You consider these sights to be an authority on the Ark? They are an authority on a Myth????? Do you know how many great flood stories there are throughout history????
Oh I get it. Its the “It must be true, its on the Internet” Disease.
Like virtually every story in the OT they are plagiarized from Sumerian myths that came before them. Noah’s Ark is the Hebrew rewrite of the “epic of Gilgamesh”
I know. What I cannot understand is how damn ignorant so many people on this site are. Its depressing. I guess I should just not even respond any more. Let them pat each other on the back. Can you imagine what Darwin, and Newton had to go through? Newton had to keep Calculus a secret for thirty years because he knew nobody would understand it. “On the Origin of Species” was published in 1859. It has been proven over and over and still a lot of people do not believe it, and it is all because of religion.
A belief which leaves no place for doubt is not a belief; it is a superstition
Not sure I buy this one. A belief with no tangible evidence of existence would be a superstition though. Got to go, thanks for the support, Bob. Have a good evening.
Ken ham might be the dumbest SOB that ever lived, and now he is getting Air time. Why Richard Dawkins would even lower himself to talk to the guy boggles the mind. He actually thinks that humans rode dinosaurs. How can anybody this freaking dumb breathe on his own?
dummy! they didn’t ride them they ate them, that is why there aren’t any left.
LOLOL Good one!
Ken Ham watched the Flintstones & thought it was a documentary!!!
Thank you jimmy carter (lower case intentional) for the department of eduKation! That really worked out well for America. Oh hell yeah! We are so-o-o-o-o-o screwed!
Minkoff, you are an idiot. There is no such thing as “Consensus” Science. Science constantly tries to refute its findings through constantly testing its hypotheses. Science says I don’t know, but we are constantly looking for answers. Religion says: We don’t need any proof, we already know for a fact. Anyone who does not believe in evolution has not bothered to research the facts.
If religion isn’t the greatest threat to rationality and scientific progress, what is?
Twinkies, LOLOL just kidding. Yeah, its religion.
ignorant people.
Leijona, Are you saying no one could research the facts and come to a conclusion different from yours? It sounds like you hold evolution as a religious dogma.
Please do not mix evolution (Science) with religion. I am 67, and went to Catholic School. Back then we were taught the flood story. Adam and Eve. You also use the term “Facts” in the same sentence with religion. Religion is a compilation of mythical stories with some historical facts thrown in to give the myth credibility.
In Catholic school I was taught that unbaptized children went to Limbo. I asked where is Limbo? “Its a place between heaven and hell”
You mean like pergutory? “No, its not Pergutory, because the babies did not commit any sins” Oh, so why didnt they just go straight to heaven? “Because they had original sin” But they did’nt even do anything wrong! No, but their great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great,great, great, great, great, great, great, great,Grandfather did.
SO how long do they have to stay in limbo? “Forever”
So, at about 8 years old I figured that there was something very wrong with this god they were talking about.
Apparently 45% of adult Americans have not come to the conclusion I did when I was 8. That was 1954
Not all religions are alike. You’re discounting the one you grew up with. Even the religion of atheism has its own questions which will remain unanswered, yet people still hold fast to their atheistic belief systems despite fundamental logical absurdities.
Atheism is not a religion. Non Belief in a personal supernatural god that cares about everything you do is not an automatic belief in something else.
There may very well be a GOD, but he is nothing like what the Bible bangers are selling, I am sure of that.
What are the fundamental logical absurdities, Evolution?
The creation of the Universe? The Jury is still out on the
latter, but the vote is in on the former. There is one thing for
sure though, we will know more once the Webb Space
telescope is in place in a few years. I hope I am still alive to see it.
People still hold to their religious beliefs too, in spite of the fact that they are COMPLETELY dependent on faith.
As are you.
atheism is not a religion. It’s a lack of belief. When you understand why you reject the thousands of gods other then the one you believe in then you will have some understanding why atheists reject yours.
Why should I accept yours?
I have none for you to accept. You need to ask yourself this question…Why is it that you can detect fairy tales with complete certainty when those fairy tales come from other faiths, but you cannot detect the fairy tales that underpin your own faith? Why do you believe your chosen fairy tale with unrelenting passion and reject the others as nonsense?
Why do you believe your chosen fairy tale with unrelenting passion and reject others as nonsense?
I don’t believe in any fairy tales & see ALL fairy tales as nonsense. You failed to answered my question.
As did you.
the don’t stay there the come back as dumb down state taught school children.
what ever happened to limbo????
They turned it into a dance. The Catholic church put thousands and thousands of mourning parents through that kind of trauma, and many died thinking their children were stranded in never never land. Real compassionate bunch of axeholes huh? Someone suggested that I read up on Thomas Aquinas. I did. What a circle jerking double talking axehole he was. Talk about Vaporware. And they made him a SAINT!
Well, That Figures.
HA!!!!!
One’s convictions should be proportional to
one’s evidence
lets see, Hypotheses: an assumption or concession made for the sake of argument.
Theory; an ideal or hypothetical set of facts principles or circumstances,
Assumption: syn, Assume, affect, pretend, simulate, feign, counterfeit, sham, and maybe you remember that “Assume” broken down goes like this ” to Assume is to make an “Ass of U and me.
Faith; Believe, trust.
so the first three definitions fit most “science” while the last fits those who simply believe in something. and none of them are had and fast facts.
It’s pretty sad that a quarter of the people don’t know the earth orbits the sun, but the part about evolution is misleading. I was taught about evolution, but that doesn’t mean I believe it. I’d like to know how they worded that question.
Why don’t you believe it? There is a 98.99% DNA Match between us and chimpanzees. What would you need to believe it, and what bothers you about it?
well in the first place i know who my grandparents were maybe you don’t, so you can claim your related to a monkey if you like but leave me out of that. cheetah.
6. Albert Einstein: Hatred and Persecution in Religion
A man who is convinced of the truth of his religion is indeed never
tolerant. At the least, he is to feel pity for the adherent of another
religion but usually it does not stop there. The faithful adherent of a
religion will try first of all to convince those that believe in another
religion and usually he goes on to hatred if he is not successful.
However, hatred then leads to persecution when the might of the majority
is behind it. In the case of a Christian clergyman, the tragic-comical
is found in this…
– Albert Einstein, Letter to Rabbi Solomon Goldman of Chicago’s Anshe Emet Congregation, quoted in: Einstein’s God – Albert Einstein’s Quest as a Scientist and as a Jew to Replace a Forsaken God (1997)
and this proves what, and you have no proof that we are retaliated to monkeys, so you can go scratch under your arms or pick the salt off your head if you like but that is not proof of anything except you like salt.
You seem like a smart person, so why don’t you read “On the Origin of Species, also Darwin’s Ghosts. These are not new concepts. Aristotle actually believed in evolution. It flies in the face of religion, and the human ego though, which are very severe obstacles to knowledge and enlightenment. If people would admit that we are related to all living things, maybe we would stop screwing up the planet so much.
“Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
Stupid advice, obviously man made, originating from the European mind set which was at war with the planet. Again, read Touch the Earth ” Everywhere the white man touches the earth, it is sore”
Example: The white man cuts down trees to make a fire. The Indian picks up the wood from dead trees.
We need to live with other species, not “Subdue” them. Otherwise, there will nothing left but us.
sorry but the example you use is a bit off base as most of this supposed evolution stuff and the example you use is not really accurate, of course the Indians picked up wood from dead or fallen tree, the had to as they did not have tools to cut them down until the “white” man came. and those touche freely books prove nothing just as the versus bibles that people use, it is a matter of belief for each person. and there is still not actual proof of humans descending from apes, if that were so the apes would be like the doo doo birds, extinct. as they all would have evolved long ago. as for Aristotle he was a philosopher, not a scientist. so his opinion is not any more valid than yours or mine. and Darwin was a Botanist. you know a guy who smell flowers.
Where do you suppose philosophers get their philosophy from? So basically, you just don’t buy the fact that we are related to all living things then. You have no alternate theory, you just do not believe what the most noted scientists in the world believe, right?
Read Darwin’s Ghosts. There were many people that Darwin gave credit to, including Aristotle, but he really brought it all together.
Now you do not think that testing Darwin’s theory ended with Darwin right? It has been tested from soup to nuts since he published the text. It is fact.
Of course, you have every right to believe what you will, even that the world is 6,000 yrs. old, and all the animals fit on the ark, if you want.
Your grandparents? Owing to this response, I don’t really think you are actually related to the chimpanzees. I do not wish to insult the chimps.
Leijona, i don’t deal in theorys and I’m willing to look a any factual evidence on just about any subject, and i do apologize for not getting back to you sooner but i have been doing some research on the subject of evolution, the article is a bit long but if your interested if you will provide me with your e/m address I will be glad to send it to you, as for philosophers they can be as wrong as anyone else, and most probably at various times in their lives they were, but we don’t hear much about that. so i need to get back to work and like i said I’ll be happy to send the article to you, and I’m not trying to change your opinion that is something you and only you can do. S.C.
A 2002 research study indicated they are 5% separated – it may change as researchers study the human genome further.
(Britten,2002) – I studied Biology, Physics and Chemistry in college – and parroted the theory of evolution back on my tests – but subsequent study showed there are problems with it… so it is not an entirely done deal.
Thanks for that.
2002? It is now 2014, so that study is 12 years old. The current data is, as I understand it about 1% separated. Since this is your field of study, can you comment on how likely it is that we came about in a way other than evolution?
And, what would it take for it to be a “done deal” owing to your knowledge on the subject?
Thank You.
I know you do not believe in the Genesis story – but evolution has stories that change every few years or so. The reason why I believe Genesis is because I believe Christ – something happened 2000 years ago – all of the apostles were persecuted and most died martyr’s deaths – all they had to do is say nothing happened – that Jesus did not rise from the dead and they would be able to live their lives – but they insisted they saw what they saw – and it did change the world. So I will take Genesis on faith – an all-powerful God can do anything He wishes. Also the earth, solar system and universe are finely tuned for earth to have life – although they are finding planets – they all have problems for life as we know it. My not accepting evolution has not affected what I do – you deal with the world as you observe it.
The reason that our on going investigation into evolution changes is because new evidence is always being found to enhance what we already know. The people that wrote the genesis story were passing on old folklore from past ages. They had no scientific method, no telescopes, no satellites in space to refer to. They wrote down what made sense to them at the time. It no longer makes any sense by any stretch of the imagination. There are Billions of Solar systems, some bigger that ours by levels of magnitude, that is unimaginable. Our solar system, The Miky way, has over 300 Billion Stars, most of which can support life. If you have Netflix, watch “The Universe” You will be amazed.
ww.amnh.org/exhibitions/past-exhibitions/human-origins/the-history-of-human-evolution
All I wanted to know was how the question was worded, not start a debate. Was it something like “Did humans evolve from apes?” Or was it more like “Do you know what the theory of evolution is?” The same people would have a different answer for these questions. But since you threw it out there, no I do not believe in evolution and a line up of evolving mannequins is not proof of evolution. The “missing link” has never been found.
Its like putting a puzzle of “Starry Night” together (The painting by Van Gogh?) You put in all the pieces, but there is one little piece in the corner that is missing, so it cant be a puzzle of “Starry Night” right?
That is your logic, Jennifer. Think about it.
I think it’s like trying to put Starry Night and Starry Night Over the Rhone together. Both were made by the same creator but are different. No matter how hard you try they just don’t fit. Have you ever considered the skulls they use as “proof” were just birth defects?
You know what I think? I think that religion has blinded people to the truth, and continues to do so. There will never be enough evidence for evolution for some people because it flies in the face of the creation story. Most people grow up and realize that there is no Santa Clause coming down the chimney, even if there was one a long time ago. The ancient god story that the Jews used to extort money from the masses doesn’t work any more. Well, for some people it doesn’t.
That explains a large segment of those who vote “Democrat” for Dear Leader.
Check out the website http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com for a complete report on American “education” – if you want to call it that. Also read BRAINWASHING.