Hobby Lobby vs. Obamacare Reaches Supreme Court

Posted on by Michael Minkoff, Jr. · 820 Comments

A little while back, there was a big stink when Hobby Lobby, the famously Christian arts and crafts chain, refused to abide by the Obamacare mandate that, in effect, required employers to pay for contraception. There was talk that the chain would have to shut down if it were forced to pay the heavy daily fines enshrined in the law.

But then the enactment of Obamacare was delayed. Then the exchanges were a disaster. And then Hobby Lobby won their case in the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals. But that wasn’t the end of the story. Obama fired back with an appeal of his own. And the Supreme Court will decide tomorrow if it will hear the appeal or dismiss it.

If the case is heard by the Supreme Court, it should go without saying that it will be an extremely momentous decision, perhaps the most important of my lifetime. This isn’t really about Hobby Lobby. It’s about setting precedents concerning the practical private exercise of religious liberty. As the civil government develops public policies that have more and more to do with private practice, the boundaries and limitations of religious freedom are being tested.

Obama has made it clear in the past that he wants religious exercise to stay inside churches. Eventually even that may not be allowed. But, for now, he certainly doesn’t want religious ideology getting in the way of his progressive plans for the country. Whether it is homosexual marriage or Obamacare, the “religious right” has been told in no uncertain terms that their opinions are not allowed to be put into practice—even in the confines of their own businesses.

If the Supreme Court either dismisses the case, or rules in favor of Hobby Lobby, it will open the door for a huge country-wide loophole to the Affordable Care Act. In other words, any religious organization could legitimately back out of Obamacare with little repercussion. And this would also establish the precedent that private businesses should be allowed to establish religiously-motivated policies without interference from the civil government.

And I’m sure that is exactly what Obama is afraid of. His attempts to completely restructure health care in America have already been plagued with setbacks. If religious organizations can conveniently duck out of the program, Obamacare will largely be dead in the water. I’ll be keeping a close eye on this and reporting back on it soon.

820 responses

  1. With the Supreme Court weighted heavily to the left and Judge Roberts hoping to stay within the right social circles in DC . . . I wish the best for Hobby Lobby.

    Pray for Hobby Lobby .

    Reply

    • “Supreme Court weighted heavily to the left”??? Are you a complete moron??? This is the most conservative court since the 1930’s!

      Reply

        • my question is why are they appointed for life, they should be elected the same as any of the other crooks in Washington.that will be the only way to get America back..

          Reply

      • Mr. Bob, there are only 3 bona fide conservatives on the Supreme Court — Scalia, Alito & Thomas. Kennedy is a swing voter who actually opposed Obamacare to join ranks with our side… while CHARLATAN Roberts voted with the Liberal Mongrels. Sully Freeman is more accurate than you think.

        Reply

        • In recent years, the United States Supreme Court has turned corporate treasuries into campaign slush funds for CEOs, demolished campaign finance laws, aided and abetted pay discrimination, made it much harder for consumers and workers to file class action lawsuits against corporations that have cheated them, and kindly delivered the White House to one lucky Republican from Texas. Today’s Supreme Court stands as one of the most conservative in the nation’s history

          Reply

      • Not quite as Conservative as it was supposed to be. When Pres. Ford appointed Anthony Kennedy, Kennedy was thought to be more conservative than he turned out to be. He’s the “swing guy” who decides most cases, and he’s a switch-hitter.

        Reply

      • The democrats used to be decent people until they turned communist.
        John Kennedy was a democrat but he was a far cry from the crooks
        and communist we have today. JFK was a SAINT in comparison to what the dems are today. He was also a war hero. Obama is nothing
        but a lying (Kenyan) dirtbag.

        Reply

      • Your shinning idiot (uneducated) is showing again! Plz get back on your meds and take a little nap, you’ll be thinking a little clearer then, Booby

        Reply

    • Don’t sell John Roberts short. I think he knew exactly what he was doing when he ruled the tax for non-participation constitutional, while at the same time ruling that the ACA couldn’t requir the states to expand Medicaid. It was a recipe for disaster for ACA. He did write, “It is not the responsibility of this court to protect the people from the consequences of their choices.” In a few years, you will be thanking John Roberts for the demise of the Democratic Party.

      Reply

      • Yes he knew what he was doing alright, but it was most definitely not looking out for the American citizen. Roberts did not craftily handle obama. He was looking out for himself as to the specifics of why still remains unknown. Roberts rewrote the law by redefining the term “penalty” to “tax” which is way beyond the scope of his responsibilities and is Unconstituional. It must be adjusted through Congress not SCOTUS. Go Hobby Lobby!

        Reply

        • Nah, Roberts doesn’t need to look out for himself. He has a lifetime appointment. I think that with his ruling, he
          gave the Democrats just enough rope to hang themselves with.
          And I think Hobby Lobby will win its case.

          Reply

          • YES YES YES! Thank you Ctaj!! America has “built” this mess. I hold AMERICA responsible for Obama.

          • Pleeeeese, don’t say the American people elected Obama. The crooks, liars and fraud perpetrators at the polls elected the lier in chief. The Americans elected Romney and their votes were canceled by mickey mouse and the other millions of dead people that voted.

          • I would say YOU are the dumb one here. It is a known FACT that the elections were corrupt! MOST of the military absentees were NOT counted. Also explain how cities voted 100% for obama. NEVER would there be 100% voting for ONE person. (Unless there is a small number of voters)

          • You’re the idiot. Romney got 100% of the vote in some small districts in Utah. Do you think that was because of voter fraud? Obama got 97%+ of the black NATION WIDE so is it really that difficult to believe that is some small “all black” districts he got 100% of the vote? In any event, here’s the truth.

            http://www.factcheck.org/2013/01/voting-conspiracies/

          • It actually shows that there is a large element of a racist mentality among black voters and that they’ll vote for the candidate that offers the most “free” stuff.

          • There were PLENTY of Republicans in both 2008 AND 2012 who DID NOT VOTE because neither John McCain or Mitt Romney were “conservative” enough. I hold them responsible as well. There were plenty of folks who never would have voted Democrat, but did in 2008 to “be a part of history.” I blame them too. Sure there was fraudulent voting, there is in every election. But Obama still won with more folks voting for him period. And most of them are NOT “Liberals.” True “Liberals” are few and far between. Most folks don’t know what the hell they are and that is half the problem!

          • Most Americans weren’t about to “double down” on STUPID! That & Americans don’t want a social agenda out of the Dark Ages is why Obama won!

          • Still waiting for your great evidence (the lack of). Wheres the missing 30 states to prove who is educated and who’s not ????

          • Mr. Bob, I hope the Social Agenda Obumba is after is the one you want. That is to bring America (he thinks we are an arrogant nation) to it’s knees. He has done a mighty fine job of it so far. We are so far in debt we may never get out. China practically owns us, and what would we do if they came by the boatloads and said we are going to take over America? ANY religion in America other than Muslim is being pushed by the way side (look at what is happening to our Military). Your liberals are tearing down the American Constitution piece by piece. Obamacare forced upon millions of Americans who don’t need it because of their own insurance. If this is YOUR Social Agenda out of the Dark Ages, then YOU need to get your head out of the Sand (even camels are too smart to stick their heads in the sand) and see what is going on. Or maybe YOU don’t have that much intelligence. Mr. Obumba doesn’t deserve to hold the title of President of the U.S. He has committed treason and fraud and a whole multitude of breaking the laws. He needs to be escorted back to his homeland of KENYA. And none of this mess can be blamed on the conservatives. He and his Idiots have done it all themselves. And what part of the US Constitution do you thing is wrong?

          • Do you ever listen to most people in public? I’ve talk to several people who have NO IDEA what or why they voted the way they did. I vote, and ask questions. While in line at the polls, I was told that the reason they voted the way they did was because of the FREE cell phone, and other free things they were getting. (I was surrounded by morons) Very few knew what the isues were.
            My neighbors voted because obama was going to give them more work, other people wanted to free insurance. Others wanted the extended unemployment. So conclude what you want, but I’m so happy things have turned to crap! EVERY ONE who voted for him deserve it!

          • Exactly. Now, I’m going to continue to support the Tea Party candidates and try like hell to “primary out” the RINOs, but if a RINO gets nominated, I’m going to vote for him, even if I have to hold my nose when I do it, because the alternative is a Progressive. Not voting is not an option.

          • Wendy, sadly I don’t disagree with most of what you said but I do believe several states were put into Obama’s column directly as a result of fraud. Pennsylvania, Ohio and Illinois are the biggest with the most evidence of fraud. When numerous precincts gave Obama more votes that the number of registered voters that is suspicious. Many precincts in those states had vote counts in the thousands for Obama with not one single vote for Romney. If it stinks like crap, it probably is crap.

          • This drivel doesn’t explain why numerous private polling companies accurately predicted the results of these states.

          • Who do you think they included in their polls? please shut the hell up unless you have something to add to the conversation.

          • Note to axmickl;
            ignore the fool. Its like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

          • Why are you talking to yourself? Is it because you can’t answer any questions from others about your stupid conspiracy theory?

          • The American people WHO VOTED elected Obama. Problem is, 44% didn’t vote at all, and let him win.

          • Surely you have evidence of this assertion. No, at a time when the majority of American’s opposed ObamaCare, the Eastern Establishment Republicans managed to split the Tea Party candidate vote about six ways, leaving their guy the winner

          • Are you sure your name isn’t James living in Ireland? He has researched all his life, and his sun sets on Obumbo AND his idiots.

          • Think about how many people work directly for the government, the school teachers, the unions, the people who work for companies that rely on government contracts, all the lawyers, and all the people living on welfare. It’s a wonder to me that we Republicans do as well as we do on election day. At least some of those people must have a conscience.

          • 1/2 of America — the other half NEVER voted for BO the Marxist Muslim — WE KNEW when he said, “We are 5 days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America,” what the words meant! The STUPIDS are so stupid, they didn’t have a CLUE what it meant! Between Obama’s “STUPIDS” cult and some great voter fraud and corruption, THAT is why he is still in the White House!

          • because of all the illegal voters and the black voters, and all the fraudulent voters, he was elected, but don’t blame Americans, it wasn’t their fault.

          • Still waiting for your great evidence (the lack of). Wheres the missing 30 states to prove who is educated and who’s not ???? You presented 20 states, but you do realize that there is a total 50 states ?? (your short 30 states)
            So much for your educated math, Mr Smarty.

          • Why are you so afraid of requiring an ID to vote? You need an ID for just about everything these days. You are a useful idiot.

          • You must be very lonely, or have far too much time on your hands to take on the role of a troll.

          • Here in Colorado, our Secretary of State Scott Gessler (R) went to great lengths to compare voter registrations to citizenship. I’m not sure if he found any illegals at all, but if he did, it wasn’t more than a handful. You’re barking up the wrong tree blaming illegal voters. The problem is the legal ones on the dole … and, of course, every minority in this country who thinks the GOP is racist because of the uncompromising attitude some have toward immigration reform that allows a path to citizenship to people we enticed into coming here decades ago –by not enforcing the law — because we wanted their cheap labor.

          • Inperson voter fraud is a GOP myth to cover up the voter ID laws they pass to suppress the vote of the people least likely to vote for them.

          • GOP governors in EVERY state tried to find evidence of inperson voter fraud & NONE of them could find ANY!

          • Maybe you’re being sarcastic, but you’re right none-the-less. The more we’ve “democratized” our Republic, the furthe

          • If you want the government to enact more laws restricting birth control, sex education, abortion, same-sex marriage, and drug use, among other things, it makes you pro-big government, it doesn’t make you a “don’t tread on me” small government libertarian. It also makes you a colossal hypocrite, plain and simple.

          • I agree wholeheartedly with you. I don’t want our government telling me when I can go to the bathroom or what kind of light bulb I have to buy so I can see to go! Our government needs to get out of our daily living lives and do something positive.

          • What’s “positive” depends on one’s perspective, and leads to a whole lot of unintended consequences. I would prefer that they confined their activity to national defense and delivering the mail, and let us fend for ourselves under local government and laws.

          • Alexander Tyler [questionable attribution] observed that the average Democracy has a life of about 200 years, and it’s decline begins when the electorate realizes it can vote itself largess from the public treasury.

          • Who do we think elected Obama?? The LIBERALS, that’s who…you know, the “freebie” crowd. The teaparty patriots
            sure as hell did not do it. They’re fighting tooth and nail to stop
            the liberals from completely destroying this country AND that INCLUDES John McCain, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner and some other RINOS. They need to go to JAIL.

          • The American “STUPIDS” elected Obama! Obviously, there are more of them walking among us than intelligent American people!

          • I keep hearing from teabaggers that it was the “stupid” or “low information” or “people seeking freebies” that elected Obama but the facts are that it was just the opposite! Obama carried the 10 most educated states, measured by the percentage of residents over 25 years old who have a bachelor’s degree or higher & conversely, among the 10 least educated states, Obama lost 9 states + Obama carried 8 of the Nation’s 10 Wealthiest Counties. It was the poorest most uneducated states that voted for Mittens!!!

          • Indeed he did. This is the problem for the GOP. There are really only 4 “toss up states” (if you count Florida & Ohio) along with Virginia & North Carolina. Had Mittens carried ALL 4 “toss up states” (he ONLY carried NC) he would have STILL LOST!!!! The “dark blue” states have 272 electoral votes & you only need 270 to win.

          • (Warming up my vocal cords….) LIAR. Keep spewing your LIES, douche! The highly uneducated voted the Marxist in. Uneducated simps like you!

          • You cannot get past the simple fact that the states that the gop carries are the poorest most uneducated states in the nation. Now, you can try to spin it that the educated or rich people are really the stupid ones but the ONLY people buying that are the VERY same uneducated people living in the poor states!

          • If you combine all the “freeloaders”, dead voters, illegals with no ID and the “marxist-educated liberals”…….it put your messiah over the top….If you think he has problems imposing his agenda on us now….wait till 2014 when conservatives become the majority again!

          • (1) we know inperson voter fraud is a myth (2) we know Obama carried the most educated states & people making the most money. Take a look at what states the GOP carried? The poorest most uneducated states so who do you think the uneducated idiots voted for???

          • Not true. It’s been shown to occur in 14 jurisdictions according to, gasp! The lame stream leftwing media. By the way, Detroit has the lowest test scores in the nation and voted overwhelmingly for your Messiah, to the tune of 11k more than were registered. Some liberal math, eh?

          • No, BO carried the states with the largest cities. Not necessarily the most educated. The “educated” who voted for him did so because of their liberal indoctrination at the feet of instructors who pounded socialistic clap-trap into their young, no real life experience minds. Minds dulled by their binge drinking evenings and weekends. The best education isn’t found in universities but in the school of hard knocks that teaches you to depend on yourself, family, and faith. This is the heart and core of America–middle America– where real people who don’t suck on the government tit live, work, and try to enjoy life without government rules that constantly infringe on their lives . Don’t call these hard working people “uneducated idiots” they are the salt of the earth.

          • Middle America where people don’t “suck on the government”??? Is that a joke??? Farmers have been sucking on the government for YEARS!!!! BTW,If you want the government to enact more laws restricting birth control, sex education, abortion, same-sex marriage, and drug use, among other things, it makes you pro-big government, it doesn’t make you a “don’t tread on me” small government libertarian. It also makes you a colossal hypocrite, plain and simple.

          • As long as we are discussing tax money and waste. How about that area you live in which you claim has such high property value and has so many rich people? How much is that Malibu beach project costing the taxpayers? Two miles
            of beach compared to millions of acres of land used by farmers. 100’s of
            billions of dollars paid in taxes to the state and federal government. You talk
            about the wealth of Malibu yet you are unable to pay for your own beach.
            You even tried to steal sand from another beach for your waterfront. And $27 million a year for upkeep on those beach’s. Now that
            is what I call a Welfare Queen!

          • The Malibu beach project has cost a measly $20 Million & the home owners fit the bill. The government isn’t paying people in Malibu that own homes on the beach??? $27 Million??? Farmers rape the taxpayers for over $200 BILLION!!!!

          • Malibu beach home owners are only paying for 3 1/2 acres of it. $120 million initial cost plus $27 million per year is from state of Calif figures. Figure that out per square foot verses square feet of farm land and those welfare queens in Malibu are getting more then the farmers (and that includes the city farmers).

          • I really don’t understand your point. People in Malibu aren’t getting paid to live on the beach. Farmers are getting paid whether they grow crops or not? $120 million is a drop in the bucket compared to over $200 BILLION

          • If you’re a capitalist then you must believe in supply & demand. THAT is the reason a few acres of land in Malibu is worth more than an entire county in some “flyover” state.

          • If it is worth so much, and the people are so prosperous, why do the tax payers have to fill in their beaches and build dunes in a feeble attempt to change nature? And that county in what you insultingly refer to as a “flyover” state will feed thousands of people and support more houses and business’s and people then that playground you refer to as Malibu! In addition, you fail to mention that over 80% of the farm bill is for the snap program, nutrition in schools etc. The land you refer to as acres that farmers are paid not to farm changes yearly and is for proper land management and the environment.

          • Farmers get paid not to grow crops in order to avoid oversupply that would drive food prices down for the rest of us! They get taxpayer dollars to protect their incomes in “direct payments” + tax payers pay for their insurance premiums and help fund payouts if a claim for crop damage is made! We have tariffs against imports (that make prices higher) + farmers have locked in historically high commodity prices at taxpayer expense.

          • Still no answer to the taxpayers building beaches & dunes in Malibu to protect the homes of the rich. Also found it interesting that the court had to tell one of those homeowners that they could not block off access to the beaches.

            On the plus side, this site would really be boring without your remarks.

          • even IF what you say is true, and it is only half true, as it is only the giant farmers that get any money, but none the less, it is the farmers that FEED the WORLD!! and how does sand taste? I know for a fact you can not eat it!

          • It’s NOT only “giant” farmers feeding from the government trough it’s ALL farmers!!! Why should farmers (most of whom are rich) get government handouts??

          • BTW, comrade Bob…how’s your job search coming along? Any prospects yet? Yeah, yeah ..I know…I know…it’s all Bush’s fault you aren’t working. It’s all Bush’s fault you needed to get on welfare, food stamps and indigent care. It’s all Bush’s fault you’re a loser and a no good bum. We all got it. (wink, wink). Hope you find work soon, though. We need more of you hard working , Liberal progressive communists to pay taxes and help us fund your ObamaCare debacle…. I said to the communist with truthful, scathing sarcasm.

          • I don’t need to search for a job & I’m very sure I pay more in taxes than your gross income, so, who’s the loser?

          • Yes, it was under a Democratic President, Franklin Roosevelt. The AAA (Agricultural Adjustment Act) in 1933, which was a part of the “New Deal” a comprehensive European styled government aid program began paying farmers. Government put that carrot on that stick. You might enjoy reading a book called “Liberal Socialism” written by a Socialist, Carlo Rosselli. It’s an older book, but you can still get it. Compare Rosselli’s egalitarian-leaning ideology with the US. Constitution (as meant by the framers.) You might want to go back to the American way.

          • Myth my a$$ !!! Are you really that stupid? 15 of your comrade liberal communist buddy’s have already been sentences to prison for taking part in major voter fraud last elections. And the courts are still busy today prosecuting even more of you anti-American, communist scumbags. Face it, clown, American’s despise communists.

          • Actually the GOP has been convicted more on voter fraud than Dem’s but we’re NOT talking about “inperson” voter fraud because that doesn’t exist.

          • Actually, we don’t know that in person voting fraud is a myth. When more people, some of them dead, vote in a precinct than the number of people living there, that is voter fraud. Your statement shows you are among the uninformed voters.

          • I also know that in La Cruse FA (don’t hold me to the correct spelling) they had 158% voting. When I was in school 100% was 100%. Anything over did not exist. Warren county in Ohio also had more than 100% voting. And there was no fraud?? (:-(

          • Factcheck.org!?! You are kidding me, right!??.. No wonder your head is full of mush. You are an idiot. A useful idiot.

          • He did not carry the most educated states. He and his demons worked in the states with the highest number of electoral votes. He did not carry most states. By working in the states with large electoral votes he won by default. Were they to go by the popular vote he would have lost. He just spent the demoRat money given to him in the right places and paid money to unregister people to vote for him. In one case on TV a man voted for him seven times because he was paid for. Some pole workers voted twice for him. A honest election? not so much. I suggest before you make statements that are clouded you should do some research. I did and found too many questionable voting.

          • tells U.S. oh wise one, how is it that all those states you demean are the only ones without vast or any deficits? and ALL the states that vote for obalmer or on the verge of bankruptcy?

          • Concur, but you forgot to all the double and triple voters for Obama, plus the fixed voting machines that flipped people’s vote to Obama no matter who they cast their vote for ! Mr Bill is just another lefty belittling and degrading others for his short comings. (Lack of common sense)

          • Since when does wealthy equate to informed? Obama has more wealth than I’ll ever see, and he doesn’t know his ads from a hole in the ground. The wealthy voted for Obama because they know that he’ll give them more of our money.

          • We have all seen who elected the present person in the WH. Remember the gal that said her mortgage would be paid from Obama’s “stash” !

          • Wrong on both counts. educated were evenly split and wealthy went 60% for Romney. You are such a lying sack. You post the same BS over and over verbatim day after day even when you know it is a lie.

          • educated is not the same as Intelegence I can see you went to public school by the logic you display

          • Your insulting Bill doesn’t strengthen your argument at all. In fact, it makes you look like a fool.

          • I can tell you made it much much higher in school at NYU. Wow, they should be ashamed to have admitted you.

          • Heck yeah they’ll take you… for every cent you’ve got. And you’ll end up with an education you could have gotten free by spending 3 hours a day at any public library. But comrade Bob would rather take the alternative route through life… welfare, food stamps, and indigent care programs. For he knows, there are two kinds of willing people in this world
            1) people who are willing to work ( I.e.,republicans and conservatives)
            2) people who are willing to let them (liberal progressive communists).

            Comrade Bob is a very “willing” person. ROTFL!

          • You obviously are uneducated. Although there are only two kinds of people in the world. those with lots of intelligence and little religion, and those with little intelligence and lots
            of religion.

          • Then there’s the important third kind of people who are intelligent and recognize the social, political, and business advantages of pretending to be religious. They’re the most dangerous, and the most difficult to identify.

            Just another one of those real world complexities that throw a wrench in academic over-simplifications.

          • Now, Now, flaunting Obama Bucks isn’t playing well with others! Good job Mr. Bob, you have demonstrated an act of FAITH. That being you give NYU $250K and you believe that you will get and education. That’s not just faith, it’s BLIND Faith! Well done! Well done indeed.
            SEMPER FIDELIS

          • Mr. Bob. Thank you. You just made the point I made in one of my posts (above).
            I am willing to bet that they not only would take anyone with the $250,000 it costs these days for four years at NYU, but they will ALSO be happy to give him a nice degree to go with the cancelled checks.

          • Let’s see… a person with real intelligence would figure out that he can check out the NYU text books at a good public library and learn the material on his own for about $3.75 in late fees. Is that piece of parchment really worth $274,996.25?

          • MY Grandfather had a sixth grade education started out with a team of horses. he became a millionare was the smartest man i ever knew.
            So what does education have to do with Inteligence

          • Obviously there are exceptions to every rule but I think most would agree that a person with a PHD from MIT it likely to be brighter than a person that dropped out of high school.

          • Pffffft…. Now your showing your ignorance Mr. Bill ! Go back and put your tin foil hat back on and think again about that statement !

          • Did you know Louis L’Amour ..the famous cowboy author….only had a 6th grade education? The guy was a multimillionaire wen he died. It would seem you fell prey to all those university propaganda advertisements. And did you also know, Bill Gates is a college drop-out? True story. So much for your theory that education makes people bright. Class is not something one enrolls in…..you either have it or you don’t.

          • A college education dose not go with common sense. That comes from living and observing. Time is a better educator of common sense. I know some college graduates that can’t even do simple things like take of a car or home. I left high school to support my parents who were unable to work and welfare was not as easy to get as today. I joined the Army and after serving my regular time I went to the active reserves, stayed there till 60. Retired from active reserves. During my time in the AR I entered the fire dept. I advanced to Captain of a company. I worked with a lot of college grads but some of them were more problems than a burning building. I hold citations from the AR and hold the Fire Metal for Valor. Big deal in the FD. I am proud of both of my careers as I had a chance to serve my country and fellows citizens and with only a GED. Tout college as a higher standard but the real standard is what you do for your country and citizens.

          • believing that education is a “bad thing” is just one of the many reasons the GOP is dying. It may sell wonderfully inside the conservative closed-information loop but that loop is made up of uneducated idiots.

          • Mr Bob, please point out the exact phrase where “old sarge” said anything about education being a “bad thing”. Since you put it in quotes, I expected to find those word in his statement. He did, however, insinuate that not everyone with a college education is the sharpest crayon, and even sometimes those with a GED can actually construct a meaningful argument. Please prove me (and old sarge) wrong, by showing how you, with your superior intellect, actually know what someone meant but didn’t write. But thanx for playing anyway!

          • Education is NEVER a “bad” thing…. only ceasing educating oneself and atrophying our brain is a “bad thing”.

          • If the education is the truth, and not altered by an ideological agenda with evil intentions, then I would agree wholeheartedly! A good deal of my education came from the school of hard knocks, where you come up with the truth the hard way…and never forget it.

          • I agree. Education is very important, however one must be careful what is taken as truth. Here is a good place to start, with the actual documents of our Founding Fathers not something wrote this decade. http://www.wallbuilders.com Once you have examined the actual documents that were written by our Founding Fathers you might have a different view of things then what is taught in our schools today.

          • Ahhhhh! Brain atrophy… so that’s why Mr. Bob and other liberal-progressives always respond with the same conditioned statements and assertions.

          • Oh Mr. Bob, you heathen, you surely do go on about nothing. Remember what I told you about education? Here is the reminder: Don’t let your education and degrees get in the way of your learning! I can see that advice fell on deaf ears. You would do well to listen to the voice of others experience, until you have more time in grade. Of course you already have all the answers to all the statements and opinions expressed, don’t you, anointed one.
            There are always those who choose not to listen to voice of experience, and end up as road kill along the highway of life. One thing to keep in mind as you spout off your atheist diatribe, as a non-believer you need to thank the multitudes of GOD believing and GOD fearing Veterans for your freedom of speech. Our founding fathers conceived the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, they too believed in our Heavenly Father. Mr Bob you don’t pack the gear to play in the big game of life, I’ll bet that if you tried to spout off the way you do here in any other venue (country), your life expectancy would be somewhat shortened.
            I was impressed with your knowledge of the statistics of the 2012 election, usually numbers sited are a telltale indication of major Bulls HIT!
            Can’t wait for your heathen response. By the way did you cut back on the RED BULLs and remember to take your med’s?
            SEMPER FIDELIS

          • You may want to get educated on our founding fathers. The men responsible for building the foundation of the United States were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. They were Deists who did not believe the bible was true. They were Freethinkers who relied on their reason, not their faith. As for Red Bull, being a Ferrari fan & watching the Red Bull Formula 1 team win another championship I’ve had enough of them!

          • Just like a Heathen, to switch horses mid race. Stating that Deists believe in GOD the Creator, you bolster my argument. Surely, you jest, citing that some of the founding fathers believed in GOD, fails to advance any of your points as a devout Heathen. Furthermore, stating that: “They were Freethinkers who relied on reason, not their faith.” Free thinking or the act of reasoning without faith, impossible to happen, mere conjecture on your part. Deists believe in GOD, and therefore have faith, a faith in a higher being far Greater than man and his own faculties. Faith, the act of believing something absent of the empirical data or physical evidence.
            What you’re trying to say, is that a group of people got together and pulled off the entire creation of a New form of Government called A Constitutional Republic, by reasoning and no faith was involved. A new form of Government and they just reasoned it! About that education you have, little short sided on the American History section? All I can say is the gene pool of the educators in your life needs some chlorine, the water is a bit cloudy, why the communist progressives believe the same stuff!

            SEMPER FIDELIS

          • The word Deists comes from the word Deity. Deity means God. Ere go Deists believe in God. If A equals B, and B equals C then A equals C.

            Edit: I guess this should have gone to Bob. Old Fart Marine, I agree with you completely.

          • You Christians would lose your minds if a sitting American president took the NT, a pair of scissors & cut out all the parts he didn’t believe in (miracles, virgin births, etc) & proclaimed “THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE”, yet that is exactly what Thomas Jefferson did!!!

          • I disagree! I don’t think anybody would lose their minds. Everybody, makes choices, it’s nothing more than a personal choice. I believe in God, you choose not too, still just personal choices. It doesn’t make either wrong or right. You believe in evolution of the species, I believe in creation, and because of our differences and the nature of the doctrines of each of our views, we will forever have conflict, and that to is a choice!

            Here is food for thought, math is the language of science, as such my education and degrees are in nuclear engineering, sub-atomic physics, and mechanical engineering. All heavy in math, and theory.

            For the random occurrence of of creating the human hormone insulin to be produced, in a lab, with all the correct constituent ingredients, in the perfect environment, using man reasoning and knowledge, it would take 1.0+E24 iterations to make it once, thats 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 attempts for just human insulin. The time to perform all of those iterations exceeds the Geologic age of the Earth itself.

            Now think about this no other insulin in any other animal can be used by humans, no matter how close on the evolutionary tree you choose to select. Multiply that by all the species of creatures, its overwhelming!

            Like we say in the lab. You do the math!

            As for Jefferson’s actions, doubtful check your references.

            SEMPER FIDELIS

          • Check your facts, a Deist at the time of our founding fathers is not what you think they were, you are full of hot air and ignorant of the history of this nation.

          • You Anti-Christ communists never give up do you, comrade Bob. Why don’t you take your communist horse crap to Siberia where the people can actually relate to what you’re dribbling. America isn’t the lions den where you want to be flaunting your raw communist pork butt.

          • I got my education in Economics and Finance at the same time that I had real jobs in those fields, which gave me real world perspectives that many academics lack when they teach theories like Keynesianism. They don’t seem to grasp how policy affects behaviors, motivations, and incentives.

            You could spend 8 years in academia getting a PhD in any field, but without practical real world experience, it’s about as useful as tits on a chicken.

            Someday, I’m going to move to Theory. Everything works out according to plan in Theory.

          • Who is saying that education is a “bad thing”? Certainly no one I know in the GOP, or those who consider themselves to be conservatives.
            Having an education and not using your brain to see what is right in front of your face is a worse thing, and not seeing what Obama actually is, when he told us as plainly as can be, is unconsionable if you are supposed to be among the educated. Add to it: Fool me once is my fault. Fool me twice is mine. After four years even the best educated should have been able to see what I, without a college degree, was able to see. Obamacare was a disaster in the making.

          • The demographics on the Tea Party are that have more education and wealth than the other party’s demographics, look it up.

          • Many who have not gone to college have learned more than many who graduated from college. Education is good or bad depending on the teacher and the material taught. Much now being taught in our schools and colleges is worse than useless. My dad studied on his own and mastered subjects I didn’t dare tackle in college. Self-taught, he was very intelligent and wise. He had had to quit school to help support his family after the sixth grade. He became a telegraph operator then a diesel engineer. But no degrees from any school. I affirm that we “uneducated idiots” may be smarter than many very well educated people.

          • Thank you for your service, sarge. It’s Americans like you who made this country great. And it is that same American spirit that will make it great again. God Bless America.

          • The young folks of today do not understand the hard times that were in the 50’s when young people has to help or support families. They have it to easy these days with all the perks that they get. Bus rides to school, food stamps, medicade and medical care and all the other subdues of today. We had to do what ever it took to do the job. I would love to have finished high school but that was not to be as daddy was blind and mama had a bad heart and no government help. I just worked hard did my best and gave all I could to the family and the country. I do not regret my life even now when I am 76. Thank you for your kind words. Take care and wish the best for you.

          • Shamas: SHAME on you… your “logic” is HORRIBLE. Please shut up from now on, or don’t call yourself Christian in public. You embarrass the smart ones among us. Go read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and you’ll actually LEARN what the Bible is all about… Please. Do it. It won’t kill you to read it. It could save you…!

          • Catholic? Catechism? Say…aren’t those the same people who think the Ten Commandments don’t apply to them? After all, they do bow down to graven images, right? (I e. images of Saint Peter, Mother Mary, Saint Bernard, and all the rest of the so called ‘saint’ statues). My friend, I suggest you throw all those other books that explain ‘idol worshiping techniques and practices’ into the trash can and learn what the KJ Bible has to teach. For example…You’ll find it very interesting that referring to any flesh-n-blood man as “Father” is a BIG no no according to Jesus Christ. Heck, Jesus wouldn’t even allow His own disciples to call Him “Father.” Read it. Then get back to me when you have an intelligent conversation to contribute.

          • Okay. Just what I suspected. You’re one of those unfortunately Abysmally Ignorant persons of the “fundamentalist” persuasion. So I should have known. And now I do. Okay. You can go your way now. Run along. I’m done with you. Your type is a complete waste of time. Sorry. I do believe you will make it to Heaven — but it will be IN SPITE OF your ignorance… not because of it … so don’t worry — be happy! 🙂

          • I have no idea what you are talking about. My reference was to your comment that it doesn’t take “Higher Education” to be intelligent. I was just giving two more examples to support your above statements. As far as I can figure out, this discussion had nothing at all to do with who fought in a war, or who didn’t.

            The “Smart Ass” comment was not appreciated.

          • My mistake. I misunderstood your comment and I sincerely hope you will accept my heart felt apology.

          • It may mean he has a higher IQ, but it doesn’t mean that he has any practical knowledge or that he can tie his own shoes.

          • Depends: PHD carriers that stop learning can end up of lower intellect – than a drop-out who kept on learning!

          • All that the PHD from MIT proves is that he (or she) went to school — most likely at someone else’s expense.
            Think Abraham Linclon, think a whole lot of other extremely intelligent people who didn’t go to MIT — or any other school of “higher learning”, yet are among the gifted. By the way, the bible also tells us that God gives to us as HE chooses to give. Without the basic ability to learn, given to him or her by the God you refuse to acknowledge, the person with the PHD from MIT wouldn’t have the PHD.

          • Not necessarily. It depends on what they did with their lives AFTER those life events. Someone that starts and runs a successful business that becomes a huge success, creating jobs and wealth for the owners and stockholders may have more innate intelligence, even if one is a school dropout, than someone with a PHD from a prestigious university if they do little with it. There are many ways one can learn; many, if not most, don’t involve attending conventional educational institutions.

          • When you got to the part, “I think,” you completely lost me, commie Bob. It’s blinding clear you weren’t referring yourself there. So who were you referring to?

          • Look at the sign he uses in his blog comments. He is anti Christen and more likely a heathen or Muslim. Or maybe a digger

          • LOLOLOLOLOLOL..Mr. Bob, you are NOT an atheist, you just don’t want anyone telling you what to do! You just think you are smarter than God! If there was NO God, then why would you have to fight so hard to disprove what can’t be disproven! Why, IF you had half a brain, all you had to do would be to study archeology and see that there is a “GOD” and His name is Jesus Christ from the times of 5000 years ago and mentioned in a book! EVERY time you write a check or “DATE” anything you acknowledge the Birth of Jesus Christ! every time you get mad or scared you use the name…My God or Jesus Christ or G…Damn or many other words to that effect! There is NOT a man or woman on this planet that does not have a God conscience…so do you! You just think you have all the answers and you wouldn’t know how to tie your shoes unless the God you will not acknowledge let you live! You can’t live or even die, unless HE/GOD does let you! I hate to say this, sir, and wish i didn’t but you are a “FOOL”…you say what do you mean? Well, FOOL, someone who knows the truth and will not acknowledge that truth! IF there wasn’t a God, you’d be dead and in hell right now!! YOU had better prove what you say or take your chances in a burning lake!

          • You’re funny. Once you understand why you reject thousands of other gods as sheer nonsense you’ll understand why I reject yours.

          • Um…Commie Bob. Let me enlighten you. Here is wisdom for you. There is only ONE True God. Shocking eh? All those other religions and gods you mentioned? Well those are merely man’s poor and failed attempts to replicate (modify) what the real God has already accomplished. Those are all false and deceptive doctrines. Just like your atheist religion..it’s also fake and deceptive. Nobody in their right mind would ever worship an atheist evolution god with a name like, Chucky Darwin. But you do, commie Bob. Now…Don’t your feel really stupid, commie Bob? You should.

          • 1st of all I make my living manly from the commercial real estate market which if you knew anything about what you’re talking about you’d understand that communism doesn’t believe in citizens owning real property. I understand why Christians have to reject science, you really have no other choice. Christianity has fought, still fights, and will fight
            science to the desperate end over evolution, because evolution destroys utterly and finally the very reason Jesus’ earthly life was supposedly made necessary. Destroy Adam and Eve and the original sin, and in the rubble you will find the
            remains of the son of god.

          • homer1057 graciously supplied us with a wonderful example of why Christians should get some LEARNING before they start TYPING…. Dang, you’re a HUGE embarrassment to my Church. You make the atheists LOOK GOOD…! You make them LOOK like they’re RIGHT…! I hope you’re happy with yourself for sounding like such a MORON and making all us other Believers get thrown in the catch-all with you. Read a good book called The Catechism of the Catholic Church before you spout off about the existence of God. Your arguments are horribly lame…

          • Excuse me. Before you leave comments know the person. I am a conservative who tries to live a moral life. Unfortunately our society is forgetting how to live the life by getting along and thinking of others.

          • Attempting to explain the Truth about Jesus Christ is only a “stone” to those with heavy convictions…I.e., arrogant atheists who were deceived into believing mankind can somehow morph into a god himself if he “evolves” for “millions and billions of years” )
            And to all “those people” all I can say is….Happy “evoluting.” God still loves you, despite your blind and blatant idiocy.

          • Atheists aren’t arrogant. They just use reason & logic. Since there is ZERO evidence that Jesus even existed & not a single mention of him in the historic record are we to believe in some books that we don’t even know who wrote or when they were written that contradict each other as historic fact???

          • You trust man’s “reason?”…Man’s “Logic?”…Yes arrogant. Indeed I was spot-on correct the first time, commie Bob. We can be sure you believe in man’s fairy tale, “Global Warming” too, right? Yes, commie Bob….”Arrogant” is the perfect descriptive word for …well…arrogant clowns like you. Just because you claim not the believe Jesus Christ, that certainly doesn’t mean HE doesn’t exist. The KJ Bible is the absolute best historical record you have utterly failed to bother reading. Pull your head out, dumbass. You’re making yourself look really FUBAR, commie Bob.

          • Please do not imply that the priest of the Catholic Church are molesters. All religious, Christian, Jews, Moslems, have their devil’s hand.

          • There are excellent sources of information about creation, but a Roman Catholic catechism is not one of the sources. It’s common sense that lets us realize that the intricate DNA of humans is not accidental. Many sources of scientific truth concerning the creation are available on the internet. I heard an excellent defense of common sense about creation by a Thomas Sharp last week. He was a guest at Blendville Christian Church for a 5-session “class” about creation. His web site is at http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/living/g-thomas-sharp/. I also appreciate the ministry of John Clayton http://www.doesgodexist.org/. And many others where it’s made clear that our universe couldn’t have happened by chance.

          • Do you have ANY idea how idiotic it sounds when you try to disprove science with junk science??? Just say you take it as an act of faith. people cannot argue with that.

          • Really? One’s convictions should be proportional to one’s evidence. I can tell you why I don’t believe in God or an afterlife, and can even tell you what evidence would
            persuade me that I was mistaken. Can you do the same?
            A belief which leaves no place for doubt is not a belief; it
            is a superstition.

          • Mr Bob is approaching this as an INTELLIGENT PERSON. Why do you fools attack him? Why not ANSWER him? Because you perhaps DON’T have the answer ready? What kind of Christians are you? St. Paul said to ALWAYS have your answer ready. Do you? If not, why not? Go read the Catechism. It’s done in Question and Answer format. It’s a Catholic thing. Because the CATHOLIC Church is the one founded by GOD… not man. Prot denoms are man-made. Sorry. It’s true. Face it and change. Before it’s too late. Like NOW…!!!!

          • The Roman Catholic church was not founded by Jesus. It came into existence hundreds of years after the church of Christ began in Jerusalem and is vastly different from apostolic Christianity. Anyone who wants to know what the Roman church believes can find answers in their holy books. Anyone who wants to know what Jesus taught can find His teaching in the apostolic writings, the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures in the Bible. At my web site I’ve recently placed a study I’ve titled, “Here Are HELPS FOR UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE.” It’s at http://missionoutreach.org/PB-J02.pdf. I don’t claim to be a scholar. I’ve written simple truths for simple readers to help them learn simple truths.

          • I hate to burst your bubble there, Ray Downen, but the Church pretty much STARTED right there at PENTECOST… member? All the Apostles and MARY were there. The Holy Spirit descended upon them, and they went out around the whole world (universally, which is what ‘catholic’ means)… So you might want to THINK a little harder before you TYPE or BLOG… Thanks, Bro! 🙂

          • I know the apostolic writings pretty well and I know what happened in Jerusalem was not in Rome. I know with no possibility of error that the church of Jesus Christ had no popes at any time. The Roman “Catholic” church is not the church of Christ and God. Gary is right that God’s church started in Jerusalem as recorded in Acts 2. That says nothing whatever about the Roman Catholic organization with its various officers and ranks.

          • Intelligent? Are you serious? Commie Bob believes his great, great ancestors came from a rock several “billion years a go.”
            It goes something like this:
            In the beginning nothing existed. Then it exploded,creating a whole universe from matter that didn’t exist in a space that was never there…at a time before time existed.

            The Earth was also created from matter that didn’t exist. About a half billion years ago, the Earth was super hot, molten rock. Then it started to rain on the earth with water that didn’t exist. After millions of years the cool rain solidified the molten rocks. Mixing the rain and rocks together, pools of organic slime were thus developed. And from those organic slime pools, life emerged. Hence, commie Bob’s ancestors all came from a rock some several billion years ago. Isn’t that exciting, boys and girls?

            Moreover, commie Bob also believes, a frog doesn’t need the kiss from a beautiful princess to magically morph into a handsome prince. He believes a frog can magically morph into a handsome prince all by itself simply by waiting around for “millions and billions of years.” Commie Bob calls this waiting around stuff, “evolution.”

            But commie Bob assures us, he is “Logical, “Reasonable” and that he doesn’t believe in all those silly fairy tales that those stupid Christians are spreading around. He’s too smart for that. He only believes a whole universe can be POOFED into existence from absolutely nothing…no space…no time…and no matter. And that all life originated from a billion year old rock. Gee…commie Bob is really smart.

            Indeed, commie Gary….you really should listen to every word commie Bob says. He is exactly your kind of “intelligent” person, to be sure.

          • Shamas: Again you prove “our” point: That you don’t know how to argue intelligently. You are only capable of using ad hominem arguments that don’t even meet a reasonability test. For instance, you pooh-pooh the creation of life as if it came out of the slime of the earth. Yet, that’s what GENESIS says, fooooo!!!!! So please stop typing. “Quit While You’re Behind” — puh-leeeze…

          • When considering the truth of a proposition, one
            is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one isn’t. Religion is one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies

          • You’re absolutely right, Mr. Bob… And, the more I study this paradox, the more I realize that it actually HAS TO be “that way” … where “human reason” per se, goes “out the window” — because, ironically, to BELIEVE in “God”… you have to “PRETEND” that He exists… and truly believe BLINDLY… (frustrating as hell, lemme tell you)… and THEN you get to SEE that He is/was real and “here all along” right beside you, kinda chuckling as you tell HIM that HE ain’t REAL… He says, “Then WHO are you talking to? I AM HE….” 🙂

          • The problem with “personal experience” is that every religion that has ever been there are people that have had the very same personal experience & they cannot all be right.

          • Yes. And again, you’re right on target. (You’re actually not “disproving” but PROVING the awesomeness of God, by the way. He is bigger and more tolerant than previously thought — even by ME!) The “bigotry” of today’s “religionists” is what God and His REAL true-believers likewise and uniformly DENOUNCE. I am guilty of bigotry, borne out of love for “truth” as I currently see it, apprehend it, intellege it, and therefore “know” it. All of the basic “faith vs reason” problems you’re addressing are issues of epistemology at its essence, as well as ontological issues. (See, Protestants don’t know big words. Just how to stretch the word “BUY-BULL” out to five or six syllables.) There I go again!!! So, bottom line is, YES — God reaches EVERYONE in His own way, in accordance with how THAT PERSON needs to be reached at THAT particular point in time and space. God makes all the Rules. We don’t. He even gets to “break” His rules. But WE don’t! And that’s the “vis a vis” THIS LIFE and our CURRENT understanding of “truth” (because it DOES “develop” or “evolve” over time)… well, that’s the fascinating part of this whole journey! You never know until you just “know”… and yes that’s highly irrational, uber-subjective, self-delusionary, etc., etc. WEAK compared to the WORLD. But that was Jesus’ WHOLE POINT. You can’t attack Him for delivering exactly what He promised: You GOTS to BELIEVE, Bro! I ain’t gonna leave you ANYTHING but “word of mouth” testimony about ME. Thus the saying, “All faith comes through hearing.” And “Blessed are those who have NOT seen, and yet believe.” See… Jesus wasn’t a fraud. He was God. And He knew how to “get to us” in THE most frustrating way. Cuz after all… HE MADE US…!!! Hope that helps, my friend. I enjoy your very-intelligent comments. 🙂

          • I started watching, with interest, but had to hit “pause” when the speaker admitted that he had only a PROTESTANT understanding of Sacred Scripture. Sorry. Stop right there. The Protestant understanding of the nature of Sacred Scripture is SO screwed up that they FEED themselves to their enemies, as in this discourse. A WRONG PREMISE will always yield a wrong conclusion. That’s why the Roman Catholic understanding (we’re the “Original Recipe” church, after all) is the ONLY proper interpretation of the divine authorship of Sacred Scripture and its inherent (but properly applied) inerrancy of DOCTRINE…. Freakin’ Prots screwed up Christianity for EVERYONE….!!! (But others did too, long before them.) 🙁

          • We’re also told to not answer fools in their folly. Bob is a fool for thinking there is no God. I’m glad that Hobby Lobby owners love and respect God. Good for them!

          • There is no sensible reason to doubt the existence of God. It’s nonsense to suppose this universe just happened to happen. There’s every good reason to believe there IS a God. The Bible makes clear why some of us believe that God has spoken to reveal Himself and to invite every person to enjoy eternal life with Him

          • Can you please answer me this question. Why is it that Christians can detect fairy tales with complete certainty when those fairy tales come from other faiths, but they cannot detect the fairy tales that underpin their own faith? Why do they believe your chosen fairy tale with unrelenting passion and reject the others as nonsense? I understand that successful religions make it a sin to question the fundamental beliefs on which they are based, so once inside the belief system the exits are sealed off but try, just for a moment, to look at Christianity with the same amount of healthy skepticism that you used when approaching the stories of Santa, Joseph Smith and Mohammed. Is there any physical evidence that Jesus existed? – No. He left no trace. His body “ascended into heaven.” He wrote nothing down. None of his “miracles” left any permanent evidence. There is, literally, nothing. Is there any reason to believe that Jesus actually performed these miracles, or that he rose from the dead, or that he ascended into heaven? – There is no more of a reason to believe this than there is to believe that Joseph Smith found the golden plates hidden in New York, or that Mohammed rode on a magical winged horse to heaven. Probably less of a reason, given that the record of Jesus’ life is 2,000 years old, while that of Joseph Smith is less than 200 years old

          • It’s called faith. When one researches, chooses and ultimately decides to give their life to whatever faith that is, it’s what they choose to follow. I never have understood why some atheists can’t understand that. They need all this actual physical evidence, or it never existed. Just how there is no physical evidence how life began without a creator of some form. You can’t prove that just as much as I “can’t prove” to you God created us. I’ve even been told by one atheist (he calls himself agnostic atheist, which makes no sense), that there is no such thing as choice. Therefore, there is no cause for faith. Which also makes no sense.

          • In the U.S., faith is regarded as a thing of virture. A ‘person of faith’ is admired. It might be said of someone that they have “very strong” faith. I take that to mean that this person will believe whatever their minister tells them, no matter how foolish it is. I’m here to say that a ‘person of faith’ should not be admired, but should be pitied as someone who has lost the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality. Faith is not a virtue. It is a mental defect.
            When you stop to think honestly about it, faith is just wishful thinking. It’s hoping that reality conforms to what you want to be true. For those who are religious, they don’t have faith in things they don’t want to be true. They have faith in what they want, such as their hopes of a happy neverending afterlife where they will be reunited with their loved ones, and of a watchful loving heavenly father. To me, the word belief implies acceptance without evidence (or acceptance in spite of evidence to the contrary). The word “belief” is often used interchangably with the word “faith”. Under this definition, I can confidently say that I have no beliefs. I have “understandings” about things, based upon the information I have. I do not accept things for which there is no evidence, or in cases where the evidence is insufficient. In cases like that, my acceptance of such a claim is withheld. I maintain a very high standard of evidence. In cases of extraordinary or unusual claims, such as alien abductions, ESP, and biblical miracles, the amount and quality of evidence must be higher than when considering more ordinary topics.People of faith should understand something about the way scientifically-minded people come to accept an idea as true. We accept things as true, based not on an automatic assumption of truth, but after careful consideration of all evidence, weighing all sides of an issue, after skeptical criticism and asking a lot of questions of all positions. This acceptance is a tentative acceptance, not a religious belief. the relationship between scientific thinking and the acceptance of ideas is not a faithful relationship. In our circles, people with a healthy dose of skepticism are considered careful and judicious, while people who exhibit “blind faith” are regarded as credulous and naive, and even foolish. Is far easier, and lazier, to answer the question of how something came into existence by saying “God made it so”, than to actually investigate and research the true answer. We think differently, believers and non-believers. Ask the most devout Christian to suddenly stop believing in the existence of God, and to reject the bible on the basis of its irrationality. They could not do it. Therefore, belief is not a matter of choice. Your belief is based upon what you have hitherto been exposed to. That is why children born of Christian parents believe in Jehovah, and children born of Islamic parents believe in Allah, and children born of Hindu parents believe in Shiva. For a person to cease believing in God, their intellect must be convinced through evidence and rational thought. But to convince a true believer, you must penetrate their armor of faith. Faith is the armor that protects belief. Faith is the blind acceptance that repels the arrows of evidence and rational thought. The armor of some people, admittedly, is so thick, built up by years of indoctrination of the terror of hell, that they are unreachable. There will always be such people. But there will also always be those people who’s armor, after careful prodding, will reveal chinks, and who’s belief therefore can be assailed with the weapons of reason and fact.

          • That’s why people change faith all the time. From non-believing, to believing, and vice versa. Just because someone is born into a religious family does not make them a religious person, nor does it say they will follow those practices the rest of their lives. I used to believe the rich should give the poor more money because, frankly, they had it and I wanted it. Now, I see that as just plain jealousy, it was a wrong idea, and I should work hard for my money.

          • The CATHOLIC faith is the UNIVERSAL faith you’re looking for. It’s been there for 2,000 years. Did you get lost?

          • If you’re born in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, India or a MANY other countries the chances of you being Christian are VERY slim.

          • I’ll just quote you one of my fairy tales: For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

          • Well look what you believe, clown! “You people” believe, your great, great,great uncle was a freaking cabbage and your ancient cousins were all climbing tree insects. ( “Origin of Feces”..pg 120 ) How stupid is that? Have you ever seen a half-cabbage, half-man fossil? How about a half-whale, half-cow fossil? Or, maybe you have photos of an ancient two-celled organism fossil??? According to YOU PEOPLE, commie Bob, they all should exist. But alas, they don’t.

            Indeed when Jesus ascended into Heaven, leaving no trace of His physical existence here on Earth, there were over 500 eye witnesses who actually saw Him ascend. Read the KJ Bible and see for yourself. It’s in there. But according to your evolution/atheist religion, a cow supposedly, somehow magically morphed into a large whale some “Millions and Billions of years ago,” but nobody knows exactly where to find any scientific evidence….or eye witnesses…to prove it ever happened? DUH! There simply isn’t any proof. None. Nada. Zilch! But yet you have chosen atheism/evolution as your religion of choice despite all it’s erroneous flaws. You should feel really stupid, commie Bob.
            You really do need to read the KJ Bible BEFORE you attempt to criticize what it says. At least get a clue what you’re talking about. The Bible is NOT and was never intended to be, a science textbook. But is does point the more intelligent among us in the right direction so we can find the right answers and witness God’s creative glory for ourselves.

          • WOW!!! I can see you’ve never read a 3rd grade science book. As I’ve said before. Morons like you have to reject science. You have NO CHOICE. Christianity has fought, still fights, and will fight science to the desperate end over evolution, because evolution destroys utterly and finally the very reason Jesus’ earthly life was supposedly made necessary.Destroy Adam and Eve and the original sin, and in the rubble you will find the
            remains of the son of god.

          • Bob, let’s look at each of your above examples:

            Horus: From this website: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3054/was-jesus-copied-from-the-egyptian-god-horus

            “Massey’s (Gerald Massey, author of Ancient Egypt, The Light of the World published c. 1907) attempt to demonstrate that Jesus is merely a
            rewrite of Horus is tortured. Take the contention that Horus and Jesus
            were both of virgin birth. The most common legend about the birth of
            Horus is that the god Seth dismembered the body of Osiris, his older
            brother and husband of Isis. Isis collected the pieces of her husband’s
            body and sewed them back together, then took the form of a bird and
            fanned Osiris with her wings, reviving him enough to have sex and get
            herself pregnant with Horus. So it’s sex with a coma patient or
            necrophilia — not your classic virgin-birth story either way.

            As for the crucifixion and resurrection, the party
            involved wasn’t Horus but Osiris, as per the above. Except Osiris wasn’t
            crucified — Seth initially had him nailed into a coffin. And he wasn’t
            really resurrected, just revived long enough to be a sperm donor, after
            which he died again.”

            That sure sounds close to me. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            If you are really interested in this, read the entire article found at the above link.

          • Now Mithra is a lot more complex. He was originally a Persian god. His birth is in fact out of a rock, not a virgin birth, and the story behind that is long and weird. Then there is a break in the “worship” of this person, then about 100AD it springs up in Roman Europe. It was there at the same time as Christianity, and competed for followers. But if you read about his life, the similarities are not striking. Here is one site that give a lot of information on him.

            http://pleaseconvinceme.com/2012/is-jesus-simply-a-retelling-of-the-mithras-mythology/

            As well as Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraic_mysteries

          • Krishna

            Now at least we are getting to a “real person”, not just a mythical god. Anyway, here is a little about the “virgin birth” of Krisha from Wikipedia (the foot notes are from Wikipedia’s article):

            “Because of his sympathy for the earth, the divine Vishnu himself descended into the womb of Devaki and was born as her son, Vaasudeva (i.e., Krishna).[citation needed]
            This is occasionally brought up as evidence for the hypothesis that
            “virgin birth” tales are fairly common in non-Christian religions around
            the world.[58][59][60]
            However, there is nothing in Hindu scriptures to suggest that it was a
            “virgin” birth. By the time of conception and birth of Krishna, Devaki
            was married to Vasudeva and had already borne 7 children.[61]”

            He was not the “son of a god”, he was the god Vishnu himself.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna

            Then from the Krishna’s themselves: http://www.krishna.com

            “Many people have a hard time conceiving that God can be an actual
            person. But the Vedas tell us that God’s unique personal identity is His
            highest aspect. Here’s an analogy to show how God has three main
            features.

            Looking at a mountain from a distance, we can make out only its size and shape. This is compared to comprehending God only as Brahman, His impersonal energy, which emanates from Him just as light shines out from its source.

            As we move closer, we’ll start to make out more of the mountain’s
            characteristics—the colors of its foliage, for example. This is compared
            to understanding that God is within our hearts as Paramatma, or the Supersoul.

            Finally, when we arrive at the mountain we can explore its soil,
            vegetation, animals, rivers, and so on. This is compared to
            understanding God the person, or Bhagavan.
            Bhagavan is the source of Brahman and Paramatma and is therefore, in a sense, one with them. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavan are called the three phases of the Absolute Truth.”

            I have to thank you Bob. Before this, I really didn’t know much about Krishna or the Hare Krishna movement. I do now, and I think that the Krishnas would be VERY ANGRY AND UPSET to read that someone actually thought Vishnu/Krishna would possibly be compared to Jesus. Educate yourself instead of relying on another persons incomplete and biased writings and pretty pictures.

          • Dionysus

            Again, Wikipedia has a great article on Dionysus.

            About his birth:

            “Dionysus had a strange birth that evokes the difficulty in fitting him into the Olympian pantheon. His mother was a mortal woman, Semele, the daughter of king Cadmus of Thebes, and his father was Zeus, the king of the gods. Zeus’ wife, Hera, discovered the affair while Semele was pregnant. Appearing as an old crone
            (in other stories a nurse), Hera befriended Semele, who confided in her
            that Zeus was the actual father of the baby in her womb. Hera pretended
            not to believe her, and planted seeds of doubt in Semele’s mind.
            Curious, Semele demanded of Zeus that he reveal himself in all his glory
            as proof of his godhood.

            Though Zeus begged her not to ask this, she persisted and he agreed.
            Therefore he came to her wreathed in bolts of lightning; mortals,
            however, could not look upon an undisguised god without dying, and she
            perished in the ensuing blaze. Zeus rescued the fetal Dionysus by sewing
            him into his thigh. A few months later, Dionysus was born on Mount
            Pramnos in the island of Ikaria,
            where Zeus went to release the now-fully-grown baby from his thigh. In
            this version, Dionysus is born by two “mothers” (Semele and Zeus) before
            his birth, hence the epithet dimētōr (of two mothers) associated with his being “twice-born.””

            Sounds a lot like Christ, huh! NOT!

            Now in the spirit of conversation, here is another part of the Wikipedia article, talking about some people who think there is a comparison between these two individuals:

            “The earliest discussions of mythological parallels between Dionysus and the figure of the Christ in Christian theology can be traced to Friedrich Hölderlin, whose identification of Dionysus with Christ is most explicit in Brod und Wein (1800–1801) and Der Einzige (1801–1803).[53]

            Modern scholars such as Martin Hengel, Barry Powell, Robert M. Price,
            and Peter Wick, among others, argue that Dionysian religion and
            Christianity have notable parallels. They point to the symbolism of wine
            and the importance it held in the mythology surrounding both Dionysus
            and Jesus Christ;[54][55] though, Wick argues that the use of wine symbolism in the Gospel of John, including the story of the Marriage at Cana at which Jesus turns water into wine, was intended to show Jesus as superior to Dionysus.[56]

            Scholars of comparative mythology identify both Dionysus and Jesus with the dying-and-returning god mythological archetype.[8] Other elements, such as the celebration by a ritual meal of bread and wine, also have parallels.[57] Powell, in particular, argues precursors to the Catholic notion of transubstantiation can be found in Dionysian religion.[57]

            Another parallel can be seen in The Bacchae
            where Dionysus appears before King Pentheus on charges of claiming
            divinity which is compared to the New Testament scene of Jesus being
            interrogated by Pontius Pilate.[56][57][58]

            I don’t know about you, but these seem to be a bit of a stretch.

            Now, as we look at the four examples of “pre-Christ Christ’s”, I think that most would agree that takes a lot of creativity to come up with the theory that Christ is a copy of someone earlier.

            I know this had been long, but I think that it is an important and necessary response to Bob.

            Thank you for your time.

          • So…do you think by NOT believing in God, it will make Him go away? Not a chance, commie bob. He always gets the last word..in everything! You’ll see.

          • There are thousands of gods that people once believed in that have gone away. Why do you think the one you happen to believe in is any different?

          • Commie Bob…I do believe you are asking a serious question this time. Then, I shall answer you seriously. Jesus Christ is THE absolute most popular man who ever existed. There is no denying that fact. He is by far more popular than Buddha, Mohammed, New age enlightenment, atheism, and evolution, etc. He is known in every country on the planet. Now let’s just think about that for a moment and try to understand why this is true.

            Jesus was not a politician who held some kind of a high office, so that couldn’t be it. He wasn’t a great writer or poet, like Homer or Pluto. Nor was he a great mathematician or scientist…although he did have all the secrets of the Universe at His disposal. He never held any type of high priest positions either. The Roman emperor hardly knew Jesus….that is until those last few days before the day of crucifixion.

            The fact is, Jesus was a born in a humble stable; He was a carpenter by trade, and never wore expensive jewelery or clothing. He often ate with mobs of diseased and afflicted people and He never carried bag lunch with Him. He didn’t own a house, nor did he have any valuable possessions. So what exactly was it that made Him so popular and sought after….even today, 2000 years later? What did Jesus offer to everyone that all those other religions could never deliver?

            Commie Bob…I will let you work on that puzzle yourself. You can start with the KJ Bible old Testament if you like. There is not a single Book in the OT or the NT that doesn’t make some reference to the coming Messiah…Jesus. But, I am sure if you do a little research, you will discover the real Jesus for yourself. Perhaps you don’t know Him now…but He certainly knows you. He has always known you since before you were born. It will be good for you to research and think for a change and stop listening to all that bile spewing from the non-believer community. Learn for yourself what makes Jesus so popular. Don’t worry…Jesus isn’t going away any time soon. Jesus is the real deal…that’s why is here to stay.

          • Retard Shamas, if you gave me the OT I could write a NT and invent a person that would fulfill the prophecy of the OT!!! Since jesus was the most popular person the world has ever known don’t you find it a bit strange that the historic record doesn’t mention him? No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings. The ONLY record we have of jesus are the gospels. Not only do we not know who wrote them, consider that none of the Gospels existed during the alleged life of Jesus, nor do the unknown authors make the claim to have met an earthly Jesus. Add to this that none of the original gospel manuscripts exist; we only have copies of copies of copies of copies & the oldest copies are ALL different & contradict each other. Not to mention NONE of the stories in the OT or NT are even original!!!

          • But commie Bob… the real historical records DO mention Jesus….thousands of time. You should take time to actually read them.. we call that collection of historical records… Bible. Now you try it. B..I..B..L..E. Now remember, the “E” is silent. Now then. See how easy that was.

            Hey clown..don’t waste your pathetic atheist excuses on me. It isn’t me you need convince. I’m just one of god’s humble messengers delivering God’s message to you. I’m not interested in your pathetic excuses for not believing in Jesus. And neither is Jesus for that matter.

            God Bless…and Happy “evoluting”…commie Bob.

          • retard shamas, the bible is NOT a historical record for many reasons. We don’t know who wrote them, when they were written or even have an original copy. All we do know is they were not written by the people that claim to have written them (making them forgeries) & they were written MANY years after Jesus was to has supposed to have lived. Even a moron like you retard shamas must wonder why NOBODY mentions “the most famous person to have ever lived” until LONG after his death!!!

          • The ONLY proof that really WORKED for the ORIGINAL Christians (most of whom soon called themselves “Completed Jews”) were the MIRACLES that they saw WITH THEIR OWN EYES… like, by the TENS OF THOUSANDS of people… healed, fed, revived from death, exorcised of demons, and on and on… The MIRACLES were VERY real for the ORIGINAL people. They didn’t need electron microscopes. They didn’t need to know the LD-50 of snake venom. They saw UNEXPLAINABLE THINGS with their own eyes, and then they TOLD everyone for generations and generations. Why they even WROTE A BUNCH OF IT DOWN right when it happened. So even though JESUS wasn’t a scribe… LOTS of OTHER people were, and they DID write it all down, Mr. Bob. Do some more homework on THAT angle, and you’ll eat SOME of your words, my friend. Just saying…. 🙂

          • Why do you ONLY believe in the miracles these people claimed to have witnessed? What about ALL the other miracles people claimed to have witnessed throughout history that you claim are utter nonsense?

          • Actually, I would certainly “not” claim that other miracles witnessed by other peoples throughout history are “utter nonsense” as you suggest. No. God would work His miracles at any time, at any place, to any people. That’s the Catholic view. The Protestants (especially the American Evangelical/Fundamentalist heresy) believes that God was only talking to THEM. Catholics (being UNIVERSAL) believe in a much Broader World View than the average “God was an American Republican” protestant non-thinker you’ll find on these stupid message boards that should probably be outlawed…! heh heh heh… Happy Thanksgiving… when the Pilgrims almost got everyone KILLED because of their PROTESTANT error-filled private-interpretation of Sacred Scripture! Catholics would NEVER have done what those IDIOTS did way back then…! NO WAY!!! No wonder they almost STARVED to DEATH under Protestantism…!!! Sheesh! Today is the day that shows how PROTESTANTISM does NOT WORK!!! Only a proper Catholic understanding of Sacred Scripture can guarantee the proper functioning of civil society. The Prots will get everyone KILLED!!! :-O

          • You do if you believe if anything Obama says. If he told me the sun was going to come up tomorrow, I’d stock up on flashlights, figuring he’d find a way to screw up a good thing.

            Then when it does come up, he’ll take credit for it.

          • I’m a Christian. I also don’t believe in fairy tales. It’s truth that Jesus rose from the dead and offers LIFE to every human. Jesus performed many miracles. They were genuine, not fake. He healed the sick. He calmed the storm. He walked on water. He fed large crowds with food He created out of nothing. Jesus performed many miracles. Genuine miracles. Not a fairy tale in the crowd. And anyone who doubts that it took a God to create this universe is the believer in fairy tales. They assume life just happened. What a pity it is that anyone could believe such a fairy tale!

          • You don’t? Your whole life is a fairy tale! Leftism is a fairy tale. Your messiah not only didn’t end the wars, he has deliberately FUELED MORE of them & has decided to keep us in Afghanistan indefinitely!

          • I believe you are from somewhere. You may actually be secure in your actual constructs, which are beliefs in themselves. You just choose to say it’s atheism, when it is actually agnosticism. That is totally cool that you can’t prove that God exists in your frame of reference, or even experience. Some things I don’t want to experience, and I’m fine.

          • No he is a liberal troll. Haven’t you read his other posts. I’m sorry I replied to his post above. He is not worth our time. Ignore him so he goes away. That is the only way to treat a troll.

          • Yes, & FLAG all of his comments. He/she/it works for media matters or some other crazed, leftist Nazi organization.

          • fas·cism (fshzm)
            n.
            1. often Fascism
            a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
            b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
            2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

            By definition, this administration, and those who support it, seem to be the Fascists to those of religion.

          • Hitler was a self proclaimed Christian, raised in the Christian church, Germany was a Christian nation, the Christian people of Germany supported Hitler & believed he was a Christian + Hitler had support from BOTH the catholic & protestant church that BOTH believed Hitler to be a Christian.

          • That has nothing to do what I just said lol. Oh, and don’t forget the thousands of Catholics put in the concentration camps.

          • Trolls like you are full of it. Like my atheists friends ask, “hey, were you there to verify it.” I ask them the same of their arguments, and they are speechless. Using Liberal, anarchist, and neo-Stalinist arguments against their own kind, makes them violent, to say the least. I hope your dacha is stocked full of provisions, Comrade. I started out like you as a political cartoonist with Marxist posters, and training in Europe was cool. I met some Muslim cells in Greece also, with German anarchist girlfriends. Boy, I was a stupid, hippie beatnik. A Freak!

          • Moron, I wasn’t their to verify we dropped a nuke on Japan so are you suggesting that it never happened???

          • He faked his Catholicism during his rule, like our current leader faked his Christianity. Nazi’s allied themselves with Muslim Brotherhood members like Anwar Sadat, Abdul Nasser, and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, not just an Asian Buddhist Monarch of Japan. Just like the Nazi propagandist said, “tell a lie long enough, and people will believe it.” In the past 50-60 years, revisionist historians have rewritten history to benefit politicians.

          • The Nazis were the Nationalist Socialist Workers party, aided by Brownshirts that act like the minions of our current administration. Nazi’s were a blend of sexual deviants, and occultists, that believed in the supremacy of a supposed Aryan race, with it’s pantheon of gods, primarily Teutonic, but related to the gods of India, old Persia, Latin cultures, Greek, and Celtic mythologies. I was an Anthropologist who studied Comparative Linguistics, and Mythologies among the Indo-European Cultures. The stereotypical Nazi searched for cultural relics of the different religions, not just Christian, but Egyptian, Muslim, Far Eastern, Meso-American, many more. To be more accurate, our current government is acting more Fascist than Nazi’s, and very Stalinist .

          • Excuse me, but I’m a heathen. That is, I practice a pagan religion, and please let me assure you: we don’t want Mr Bob either.

            Although you and I have different spiritual and theological paradigms, we probably have more in common than you think. I, too, hope Hobby Lobby prevails, and not just because of the blow it would deal to Obamacare. The freedom from government intrusion into our lives is what has allowed me to openly celebrate my out-of-the-mainstream faith. As the government, especially this administration, digs ever deeper into our day-to-day existence, both personally and in our business lives, those freedoms are threatened. Winning in front of the Supreme Court would be a victory not just for HL, but for all of us who think it’s time that someone explain to the Obama administration that we will not accept his unconstitutional, constant creep into areas he is neither welcomed nor needed. HL must be able to practice their faith in the manner most true to their beliefs, just as I’m afforded the right to do the same.

          • Exactly right. Those who choose to go to Hell need to have freedom to do so. And all will do so who do not learn to love and serve God.

          • Well, for those who worship *your* God, I imagine, that’s true. There is no hell in my paradigm, and while I recognize the reality of that god for you, my deities are just as important to me. To state what you did as though the Judeo-Christian god the only option for everyone, knowing that 80 percent of the world disagrees with you, makes you no better than Mr. Bob, who wants to dismiss my deities *and* yours. If you’d like people to expand their minds enough to accept the tenets of your religion, maybe you’d do better to extend the same courtesy to others.

          • Right. Try using that excuse when God calls you to give account for your life. But, I would strong suggest you don’t don’t mention, you are an atheist. God doesn’t believe in atheism and it might just piss Him off even more.
            Truth is, we will all be called to stand before God on the day He so chooses, and give account for our whole life. At that time, the saved among us will be rewarded. The unsaved will judged (punished). I hope and pray you will be rewarded, my friend. But so far, that particular outcome isn’t looking so promising.

          • Huh? I’m not an atheist; I thought I made that clear. And I won’t be called before *your* god for anything. I’ve got my own deities to be concerned with. I think I’m even more pleased about that now, because you sound like you have one scary-ass god.

            Here’s the truth: you cannot deny my gods without denying your own. You can’t recognize the creation of man by the Judeo-Christian god without recognizing the creation of those from whom I descended. We are the Other People. We’re mentioned in your Bible. Take a peek, why doncha? I don’t have any “prejudice and bigotry” for your god. I’m sure he’s a very nice guy, but I don’t have any feelings about him one way or another. Frankly, though I feel sorry for him when his adherents start blathering about unhappy endings laid at his feet. And the “reward” sounds even worse. An eternity with sanctimonious twits and a cranky deity who gets “pissed off” because someone has a thought that differs from his? I’ll pass, thanks. If I believed in it, I’d aim for hell rather than spend forever with a judgy little weenie who is so insecure in his own religion that to support it, he has to negate everyone else’s. I’m sure if I ended up in hell I’d have a lovely cabin by the lake. Of fire. Keep condemning others like you do, and you might have the opportunity to pop over and roast marshmallows.

          • Well, the good news is that with all the scientists in hell it probably has air conditioning by now!!!

          • Heh. You could be right. It certainly sounds like it’s gonna be a whole lot more fun than anywhere else. 😉

          • Another one bites the dust by believing the liberal media’s lie and mantra, “Christianity isn’t scientific”, when in reality an honest student will realize with just a little unbiased study that Christianity is wholly and completely scientific.

          • I don’t think you understand my position. I want EVERYONE to be FREE to believe ANY fairytale they choose!!!! All I’m saying is if your chosen fairytale commands you to discriminate, well then that’s your problem because that’s not what this country stands for. So, you can either keep your beliefs to yourselves (nobody is going to force you to marry a gay person, have an abortion, use stem cell reasurch, etc) or GET THE F*^K OUT!!!

          • So you want people to believe what they want, but don’t follow the laws their religion states. I.e. thinking homosexuality is wrong and won’t marry them together. Or a religious privately owned business not providing birth control because it goes against their beliefs. I’m failing to understand where your “religious freedom” comes into play. Because to me it sounds like you just want people to have their religion, but when someone else wants you to include them in their religion when it conflicts with it, that’s the crime of the century.

          • You can believe that homosexually or abortion or (anything you want) is wrong. NOBODY is forcing you to marry a gay person, have an abortion, etc. What Christians cannot seem to understand is that they cannot force their beliefs upon others. Is that really so difficult to understand??

          • It is, and that’s what you are failing to see in this whole article/lawsuit. No one is forcing people to work at Hobby Lobby. It’s a privately owned company, and can enforce their rules as such. And not forcing churches to marry gay couples? Yea, right. It’s happening. And what about businesses being sued for not providing services for a gay marriage? Go to a different business if you have a problem. Why do you need to force that one business to do it your way?

          • Suppose I buy a controlling interest in GE (which has over 200,000 employs) & my religion doesn’t believe in cancer & therefore cannot be forced to pay for health insurance that covers cancer treatment? Or that my religion teaches me that only white people righteous. Can I fire & refuse to hire all non what people?

          • See, that’s the difference between privately owned companies, and corporations with investors and shareholders. They cannot speak for everyone, therefore cannot have biases (for the most part). Hobby Lobby, and Chick-Fil-A as another example, are not publicly traded company. So your example has no merit.

          • OK, so I bought Hobby Lobby or Chick-Fil-A then could I fire & refuse to serve all non white people & tell the insurance company that I didn’t believe in cancer & would no longer pay for any cancer treatments?

          • If in the differently-colored-sky-world you live in, the owners of those companies allowed someone like you to buy them, then theoretically yes. It’s your choice to do so.

          • You’re wrong. The civil rights act forbids discrimination on the basis of sex as well as race in hiring, promoting, and firing

          • Then whatever the law states, you couldn’t. I’m still not following your logic. And you haven’t even answered my question. Why must a business be punished for their religious right and freedom for refusal of service?

          • the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination and guarantees all persons the right to “full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the grounds of race, color, religion or national origin.”

          • I don’t see anything about homosexuals there. Especially if its a religious organization that sees them as wrong.

          • If it doesn’t say homosexuals, or anything about the sex’s, you have no grounds here. Just wait until your gods of the supreme court rule on it, then you can rub it in our faces.

          • You may very well believe that homosexuals are an abomination to your god (in spite of the fact he created them that way) but you seem bright enough to realize that like it or not you’re on the wrong side of this issue & our Supreme Court will have to grant gays the same rights as EVERY other American (even that racist homophobe sitting on the supreme court scalia realizes that). In a few years you conservative Christians will be just as embarrassed you stood against gay marriage as you are that you stood against interracial marriage & the civil rights act

          • Only time can tell. If the courts rule Hobby Lobby as wrong, then so be it. I can’t control the future. It will just be another scar and burden on us in this county’s war on religion. However, as the article states, if Hobby Lobby is ruled in favor, then this will be a great victory, and will be used in many more fights to come.

          • The Hoby Lobby case will have nothing to do with gay marriage only Obamacare but it will go down to defeat.

          • God created all mankind with a “FREE WILL”. to make of his life what he chooses but he did give us a rule book to follow if we want to please him and here I quote: Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. (1:28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; (1:29) Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, (1:30) Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, (1:31) Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: (1:32) Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (2:1) Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are that judge: for wherein you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you that judge do the same things. (2:2) But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. (2:3_And think you this, O man, that judge them which do such things, and do the same, that you shall escape the judgment of God?

          • Free will is a joke!!! If god knows with absolute certainty today that you will play tennis Friday do you have the free will not to play tennis Friday & prove god wrong? You cannot invent something knowing in advance what it will do in the future & claim it has free will.

          • Being made in the image of God means that you have a will to choose, not necessarily for your own good, because you are a created being, or of the progeny of an original, fallen,created being. Adam, literally meaning of the earth, or dirt or soil, and chemically, literally representing the elements of the soil, quickened to life. Another aspect of being created in the image of God, is as an eternal being, not ceasing to exist at death.

          • You just proved my point. You have the free will to believe what ever you want to. I have the free will to sit at this computer and make comments or sit in the living room and watch TV. What do you think? Maybe I should just watch TV rather than read comments that totally disagree with my belief system. I have that free will to do so.

          • The World will do as it wants, as Jesus said “in the days of Noah”, where every thought & intent of heart was evil. God called the Israelite to “be ye separate from the Nations of the world”, and when they wanted a king, it was to be like the other nations, and guess what, taxes came with the package. Sounds familiar? You may say Christians are on the “wrong side” of the issue, like the World picks its own enemies anyway, just you disagree with whatever the mob says to do, and you will die for it. Sexual & racial politics are a created issue, that forces division to one side or another, with straw men seen from both sides. You may call Scalia a racist homophobe, but that is a common tactic in political diatribes to demonize your opponent. It always works, so don’t change your tactic, if it only works for one side, and Mr. Bob, whatever your side is, is in charge now.

          • That was a role reversal for Democrats to buy voters that they hated, when they created the Civil Rights Act of 1883, that did the complete opposite. Social Moderates like Richard Nixon voted against segregation, when Democrats wanted separation of races. A racist Democrat named Lyndon B. Johnson wanted to buy votes, and he was not the least apologetic in tricking people of color, by design, and using the IRS in attacking faith.

          • In the absence of decency, and the breaking of the Ten Commandments, we have had to legislate creation of counterfeit versions of Judeo-Christian laws to make a Utopian Society, that is Dystopian at its best.

          • Actually Mr. Bob, religious freedom IS in the founding document of this country, As is your right too life liberty and pursuit of happiness. Now if you wish to partner up with a Mr. Bill and smoke the pole, go for it. BUT Marriage IS a religious union of man and woman, the biological pairing required for the human race to progress.

            I, as a Christian, have said that the GOVERNMENT cannot force religion, invoke a law forcing people to break their religious beliefs.

            And I have said for years, simply allow same sex legal union, on paper, in “law” it operates the same as marriage.
            By recognizing it in same box as the marriage, letting the people who dont believe in religion, like Atheists, use that over marriage.
            Reason marriage is given so much weight in society is that it is prove to promote stronger family ties, more stability in the family unit, better results for the kids from married man/woman pairing.
            Homosexuality is a perversion and trying to make it normal and mainstream is a fools choice, but simply add civil unions and that classification allows for same sex partnerships,,,also allows for 50/50 split in Cali for their divorces haha.
            As for government, it has no religious connection,,,,the religious element is brought by the elected/hired officials.
            And now actually laws cannot be wrote to force violation of the US Constitution.

          • The Civil Rights Act of 1883, and Plessy vs. Ferguson were the Democrats’ reversal of what Lincoln, Garfield, and McKinley tried to do to elevate the position of Black Americans after the Civil War. Assassination of those 3 Presidents was the indirect actions of Democrats, and their power brokers. It’s always about voter blocs.

          • Where did you hear such fabrications, or vain imaginations, Mr. Bob? Propaganda is so strong against any group or company that makes a statement of faith. All I hear is hate, hate, hate, against companies that are even heard to believe in Family Values or the Bible. Jesus promised the World would hate His own people.

          • Oh, I’ve had beliefs of all kinds pushed on me….it called the Public School System. It’s even worse now. My own brother was a teacher for 10 years, and is still indoctrinated with Liberal garbage, yet professes to still be a Christian. His wife’s parents were Cuban Communists who fought alongside Castro, and defected to Central America. It was an easy transition to becoming a Liberal for them, and “adopt” Christianity.

          • I only wish it were fairy tales when I was practicing witchcraft, and later had 35 demonic spirits pulled out of me by the Name of Jesus. All I wanted to do was go to a pizza party at a church, and spent 2 1/2 hours of paralysis, watching screaming funnels of vapor coming out of my mouth, and go into the wall. Even those kids who were members had never seen manifestations of that power. I saw it myself, and did not believe it. Oh, you want freedom yourself in your life? You only imagine that you are free in your choices, Mr. Bob.

          • No one has to keep their beliefs to themselves nor get out of the country. It’s even legal to discriminate, although how that applies to Hobby Lobby’s fight is beyond me. This country stands *exactly* for what you describe. The 1st Amendment addressed that pretty clearly. Ain’t America grand?

          • Whether or not God is known and worshipped, He created the universe of which we’re a small part. He has spoken to us in the Bible. Wise people listen. Others will learn.

          • I’m so sorry for trying to engage you in conversation. I didn’t realize that you were a lunatic. And I’m really sorry for your god, if *you’re* what he has to represent him. My goddess would be horrified if I behaved like you.

          • I remember being a pagan, but practicing witchcraft, and more than believing in the elements, saw spirits of some kind, without the aid of drugs of any kind. Yes, I witnessed malevolent beings that hated my life.

          • I have a Psychologist (35 years long) friend, who described education as A BEGINNING of LEARNING…. and if we did not seek mORE TO LEARN, our brains atrophy… Maybe the “educated” ones brains atrophied from lack of USAGE?

          • Amen.
            “Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and higher education positively fortifies it.”
            Stephen Vizinezey
            Or you and I can agree that “artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.”
            And I would like to tell you please do not wasting your time to response to the piece of dog’s feces who called himself SOB Bob. Just like your grandfather might warn you that: “Never wrestle with a pig: you both get dirty and the pig likes it.!”
            This piece of garbage just wanted to creep into our Conservative bloc to just annoy us. His real name might be ‘obama’s di.k sucker.’
            You may tell this stupid Bob to “go perform an anatomically impossible solo sex act!”

          • I agree but your Grandfather (like many people during that time) strived to become a success and most likely a very sucessful self educated man. Today waaaaay too many people are willing to do nothing and let the goverment take care of them.

          • Funny but your “facts” are wrong and puts you in that place called a LIAR. Seems you do it enough to be called a PATHOLOGICAL LIAR, so tidal of you d-bagging Dimbocraps. Keep trying skippy, your lies become funnier and funnier. LIAR!

          • My interests as a libertarian are freedom from excessive regulation, fiscal responsibility, and eliminating this despicable notion that it’s OK to take another man’s income and/or assets so you can get what you want without paying for it, as long as you do it from a voting

          • If you want the government to enact more laws restricting birth control, sex education, abortion, same-sex marriage, and drug use, among other things, it makes you pro-big government, it doesn’t make you a “don’t tread on me” small government libertarian. It also makes you a colossal hypocrite, plain and simple.

          • No, it makes me someone who has to compromise and accept some things I don’t agree with in order to have a chance of saving this country from a big government that wants to control every aspect of my life, takes money from people who earn it and gives it to people who don’t, and have run up $70 trillion on debt and unfunded liabilities by buying votes with social programs that cost ten times what’s politically feasible to tax for. If this country collapses into chaos because of fiscal irresponsibility, it won’t matter what the hell those laws are. And none of those laws affect me, anyway. The budget does.

          • Hmmmm. Your short 30 states on the tin foil proof you got here babba (you). Theres only 20 posted ! Wheres the rest of your proof, Mr Smart stuff ? (typical liberal blow hard-nooooo real facts). LoL

          • What the h@LL does that prove Bob. There are 50 states. Your point was the Demo. Blue states are smarter then Repub. Red states (top & Bottom)….. HOW does that prove that Demos are smarted then Repub. states (as you claim) if you can not or will not furnish a whole and concise graph with ALL 50 states involved…what kind of proof is THAT with incomplete information from ALL 50 states …. your the real moron that you call everyone else.

          • It proves this. Obama carried the top 10 most educated states & Romney carried 9 of the 10 least educated states.

          • Leaving Manhattan may have been stupid but if you don’t live in NYC then LA is the next best place to be.

          • It certainly isn’t the republicans or conservatives (I.e., Real Americans) who fell for the global warming fairy tale. It is you anti-American, moronic communist who are doing that even now. DUH! And you call us real Americans stupid? That’s hilarious!!!! It’s No wonder “you people” fell that ‘Hope and Change” horse crap. Say, Mr. Liberal communist…..do you even have a job? We can easily guess you don’t own any type of business…right?

          • Why would anyone think that people that don’t believe in science are idiots????? I don’t have a “job” I collect rents from commercial real estate investments for a living + play the stock market. How about you?

          • Comrade Bob, you freaking hypocrite! You live in America…the most prosperous (capitalist) country in the world and yet, you spread communist, liberal bile every chance you get. You are disgusting! Do you honestly believe there was one single communist country throughout history that did not destroy itself???? Or didn’t murder tens of millions of it’s own citizens before it collapsed? Get real, fool. You’re spreading communism in the Great USA and Americans hate communism.You can’t possibly win. Not here anyway. Pushed enough, Real Americans will take up arms and actively hunt down our enemies before we will give in to communism. History is my witness to that truth. Americans are a patient people. But our patience for your kind of blatant, destructive ignorance does have it’s limits.

          • Education
            Not a high school graduate 64 35 1 3
            High school graduate 51 48 1 21
            Some college education 49 48 3 29
            College graduate 47 51 2 29
            Postgraduate education 44 55 1

          • Degrees and education often lead to being educated past one’s intelligence. I once knew a fellow that had a Doctorate in Electrical Engineering. In the practical world he couldn’t pour water out of a boot.

          • I know the GOP is the anti-intellectual, anti-science party but if you’re suggesting that being uneducated is better then being educated well, I’m sorry but I just don’t buy it.

          • I’m certain that the people living in Malibu are MUCH more educated then the people living in your trailer park.

          • College is more about indoctrination than education. I was a truck driver trainer with a large company and I had several students with college degrees. They may help you get a job, but they don’t mean much when the rubber meets the road.

          • Fancy degrees and Doctorates often lead to one being educated past their intelligence. I used to know a fellow that held a PHD in electrical engineering. In the real world he couldn’t pour water out of a boot.

          • College education and/or a high IQ do not equal informed voting or wise decisions. It does not mean that the recipient has any useful information or knows what is happening in the world. Obviously.

          • I love the way you progressive fools like to give true patriots low class names and think it is cool. Only shows how low class and stupid you are.

          • just goes to prove what I have been saying for a long time, there are educated folks, and there are smart folks

          • Can we at least agree that “in general” a person with a PHD from MIT is more intelligent then a high school drop out???

          • If that so called educated person voted for Obama I would say no. I would call that MIT PHD an educated useful idiot.

          • o bama did not win anything
            it was all paid for in advance by good ole GEORGE SOROS the jewish traitor
            talk about a FIX
            that is why we need VOTER ID so bad
            DC are the ones that dont want it
            so they rig it

          • Universities are hotbeds of
            socialist indoctrination. Of course those “enlightened” people will
            vote for the likes of their president. It’s social engineering at it’s
            finest! It’s all about power and control. Of course a working man will
            vote for a conservative. They have a work ethic, understand family,
            have child-like faith in God, and know when they are being manipulated.
            They want to preserve the work of their hands and pass it down to their
            children, help their communities, and give others a hand up. I’m one
            of them. And, I pray for guys that don’t see this as a battle between
            good and evil. It truly is Biblical, sir. We all make that choice
            between good or evil. You will carry your choice into eternity. I know where you are coming from because I used to think just like you before I got saved. Whether you like it or not, this working man just said a prayer for your soul because your soul does exist and your eternity is important, whether you think so or not.

          • You sound sincere but what I would ask you is if you’re a so called “working man” I assume you earn less then $450,000 a year & if so, why do you vote against your economic interests?

          • Yes, I earn far, far less. I actually like work. I’ve been working since I was about 10 – I started cutting grass, raking leaves, and shoveling snow. I vote for the person who will preserve this country with it’s freedoms and opportunities, even if that is against my personal economic interests, because that is far more important to me. It’s something I swore to sacrifice my life for with each of my enlistments. Now I am content, and thankful for what I have. When you have little and loose it, it seems to hurt a great deal, so I do have to pay strict attention to what is going on in our country. I am a lower middle class person, but I just want that land of opportunity to be there for you, or my kids, without government restrictions controlling their thoughts and futures, oppressively taxing the work of their hands, and bubble wrapping them out of the ups and downs of a normal existence. I want them to live life on purpose, not live in a gray world of sameness, with no chance to excel. I have a dear friend who came to the United States from Poland in 1985. I wish you could meet him. He really taught me a great deal about what socialism leads to. I don’t know if I really got my point down here because it’s late and I’m very tired, but I didn’t want to leave you hanging. Have a good night.

          • How many freaking times are you going to repeat this post word for word? The statistic is meaningless and you know it.

          • Are you really going to espouse the misbegotten belief that ignorant blacks didn’t put O’loser in office?

          • So true. The anti-Obama types are woefully ignorant of basic facts and truths. And they’re all “friends” of mine! I used to believe their simplistic world-view… but not anymore. They’re too naïve for words… 🙁

          • Yeah educated by leftist professors. If your in college and said college is leftist, chances are you will be so brainwashed to the left. When you get out of college that is how your wired, An example. My brother whom went to little college. Was working with a few engineers. They said that they could not figure out a solution to a project at work. The problem was, they had all been educated, by a system that thought only one way. My brother was able to figure out the solution. When asked by one of these educated people, how he figured out the solution. He said to him. “All of you went to a college, and were taught the same theories. So you all think the same way, In a box.” He was thinking out of the box. So being educated and smart are two different things.

          • Yeah bob,, takes a real educated person to support someone who is systematically destroying the nation.

          • What?! They had the ever-elusive bachelor’s degree? Well, that certainly must make them smarter than everyone else, given the rarity of those in this country.

            And “teabaggers?” “Mittens?” Are you sure you’re supposed to be playing on the grown-ups’ website. Maybe you should go do your homework or watch cartoons instead of annoying the adults.

          • Aha… I guess that makes them educated useful idiots. All the more reason to know that Liberalism is a mental disorder.

          • So, you must be one of those who think that “education” is something that happens nowhere else but in a university? Go ahead and pick your champion MSEE to duel with me in Laplace transforms! I’m self-taught, so it’s a pity I’m “uneducated”; or perhaps it’s an advantage to me, because I learned (without the “benefit” of SO-CALLED “education”) the practical things that counted in my successful career, WITHOUT the POLITICAL BRAINWASHING that is the CENTERPIECE of the SO-CALLED “education” people get in universities these days.

          • The amount of education is a poor measurement of intelligence in these times. Rather it more accurately demonstrates the degree of indoctrination that takes place in the institutions of learning in this nation today.

          • I qualify as being poor. I voted for Mitt Romney. Our educational system in the U.S.A. for years has been turning out unthinking Democrats and disbelievers in God. It’s true that in our cities more vote for Democrats than for sensible politicians. And many of the votes are cast by living citizens who simply have been taught to believe lies.

          • Facts are facts, brain dead leftist troll. YOU are a pathetic LIAR, just like your Marxist messiah.
            What is it you LIKE about Obama? His promise to close Gitmo LIE, his promise to end the wars LIE, his promise that you could keep your healthcare coverage/doctor LIE? I guess for a MENTALLY ILL LIAR like yourself, LYING is the only quality you seek in your chosen politicians.

          • As I heard a Liberal Zombie said, statistics mean nothing from our enemies, because we use math to our own ends. Stalin said that it is not the voter who counts, but the one who counts the votes. Democrats in my own family said, “vote early, and often.” My uncle was a union man whose colleagues abused black GOP at the voting polls of 1950-1960’s Chicago,and White Citizen’s Council also did to Black GOP in the Deep South.

            Mr. Bob, you own a privileged place for being a good Comrade in the World Party of the future.

          • You’re placing way to much value on education, mainly the liberally educated people who think they are better than everyone else. Keep in mind that the school of hard knocks and experience is what put this country together and our educated leaders were victims of a tyrranical government…much like what see more and more of every day.

          • Actually Mr. Bob why Obama won was that true, conservative Republicans and conservatives stayed home, didnt vote because they saw McCain and Romney as liberal light.
            Yet neither time did they see that damage Obama could do/has done.
            Yes Obama carried liberal socialist indoctrinated college types that never understood socialism on this level. As for your “poor, most uneducated” means the hard working, honest, conservative people who embrace morals and fundamental honesty over piles of BS polished by truck loads turd polish.

            Obama lied, twisted and deceived every one of you liberal left wing socialists.
            ALSO it just goes to prove that an “education” doesnt make you smart, just full of socialist ravings from liberal professors.
            I work in a college town and many of the students, whos cars I repair, have finally woke up and now SEE what socialism means, many even have came to conclusion that they had better watch their professors political leanings.
            I see them, dozens weekly, who are actually scraping paint and Obama stickers from their cars, real nice ones too.
            Grow up, Obama and crew are as bad as any Communist b@stard who has lived.

          • Not to mention all those Christians who stayed away from the ballot box, or voted their “conscience” rather than vote for a Mormon.

          • Obam was “NOT” elected, he was “SELECTED”! Be not deceived, the fix is in and his name is obama! The man was put in that office for a reason! Destruction of this nation to bring it into the U.N. and the New one World order! It has already been decided! the news media reported obama a winner many hours before the election was over! Do you not see! this thing is rigged!!

          • Hobby Lobby has all the religious liberty our constitution guarantees. So do their employees and Hobby Lobby doesn’t have any right to impose their beliefs on their employees.

          • you know the answer… his muslime commie friends who he is trying to get them citizenship by illegal procedures…God bless the Hobby Lobby..

          • Too many American Citizens do not know a thing about the repercussions of their vote and would vote for Santa Clause if the Democrats told them too. If they actually had to pay income tax themselves, they might think about their vote more. It is easy to vote for higher taxes or Obamacare when you are sure that you won’t have to pay for it. There are truthfully only 53% of Americans that pay income tax which is where the problem lies. Romney hit it on the head when he stated his campaign about lower taxes did not resonate with them. It was a truthful statement and the low-life Democrat Liberals turned it around and lied and beat him over the head with it like a bludgeon. And that is how 30% of the population wins an election with 51% of the vote!

          • Obama won the last election with the votes of only 33% of all registered voters. Romney got 31%.

            44% chose “none of the above” by sitting on their ass and staying home, some because they didn’t get the right flavor of Christian fundamentist they would have preferred, and couldn’t bring themselves to vote for a member of what their church calls a “cult.” If you’re one of them, pat yourself on the back for giving us Obama.

          • Still waiting for the rest of the states (30 missing) of your so called “Smart” states. . Hmmm… don’t have them, dooo you! Oh, by the way, what’s the date on this so called proof of smartness?? 5, 10 or 15 years old , is it ? Looks like you can’t produce them !

          • Well, comrade Bill….when you finally get your green card and food stamps, you think you’re gonna like living in the US?

          • Yep, the Democrats won because they had a better-organized ground game, and were able to get people to the polls who had no idea what the issues were, who the candidates were, or how the economy would be effected. All they kn

          • Ctaj,
            You got it right. Better a Mormon President than an unproven inexperienced President that cannot make a speech without a teleprompter to tell him what to say. Obama is just a puppet for the Bilderburg Group – they call the shots, make the speeches Obama has to parrot. And election fraud got Obama into his second term, not the true vote. Dead people voting from the grave, voters fraudulently voting several times in different precincts, and voting machines being illegally tampered with. Now we have to face all that in the 2014 midterm elections – products from the Chicago Political Machine.

          • Of course Obama carried 8 of the 10 wealthiest counties in the country so there goes that theory!

          • He didn’t take Loudon County, nor Prince William, only Northern Virginia which includes a multitude of illegal aliens and undereducated poor. Maryland is a moronic leftwing Mecca that is overly taxed and people are waking up to the one party wrecking ball that is pushing businesses out of the State. 3 counties in Maryland voted for the Liar in chief. The rest, which have petitioned to break away all had intelligence and didn’t vote for the pile of feces called Obama.

          • Your educated intelligence is shining thru Mr Bill LoL. Aren’t you getting tired of being verbally beat on your points (the lack of the dribble you present as your evidence). Just go away and find another place to spill your lefty lies.

          • Maryland is one big suburb of DC. The political class always does well for itself, no matter what party is in power, as long it’s not a bunch of idealists like the Tea Party who actually want to stop the gravy train for the political elite.
            Most of the swankiest villas in the South of France, worth millions of dollars, were owned by the bureaucrats who ran the Communist Soviet Union. That equal-outcomes-for all is just a lot of pablum for the masses. One can get quite wealthy fooling people into thinking you’re “for the little guy.”

          • Pitkin County, CO, is where Aspen and Snowmass are, and where most of the properties are owned by Hollywood movie stars. I think they have a bounty on Republicans there.

          • So does that dispel the myth and long held Democrat/liberal talking point that the Republicans/Conservatives are the party of the “rich” and it is really the Democrats who are the party beholden to the wealthy?

          • I am praying that HOBBY LOBBY wins their case! Why does our Government feel they have to dictate to small businesses and tell them what they can and can’t do if they are not breaking any laws?

          • No…not martians. It was global communists… calling themselves liberal progressive democrats…who voted for that anti-American jive turkey-in-chief. No REAL American would ever consider voting for Non-American, social communist, for anything…especially not for the office of US President. How do I know those weren’t Americans who voted Barry SissyBoy Soetoro ( aka Obama) into office? Because Real Americans despise communists. It’s just as true today as it was in 1942. Real Americans don’t kiss a commie’s butt and allow them to move into OUR White House, rent free. That’s how we know.

          • The best summation of the situation I’ve read was this excerpt from a piece by Karen Selick, a Canadian Attorney:

            “In a capitalist, individualist, libertarian society, those who wished to be socialists could band together and
            do just that. They could form voluntary mutual aid societies, workplace co-ops, residential co-ops, purchasing co-ops, or full-blown communes, religious or secular. Among themselves, they could choose to equalize
            their incomes, redistribute their wealth, subsidize childbearing, adopt sexual or racial quotas in their business premises, ban dirty jokes and light switchplates, and so on. Capitalists would not stop them, because
            capitalists recognize that freedom includes the right to dispose of your energy and your property as you see fit, no matter how self-destructively that may turn out to be in some instances.

            The reverse does not apply. In a collectivist society, capitalists are never permitted to opt out and deal with like-minded capitalists without interference. The collectivists insist that everyone pay for collectivist social programs, even if they don’t use them. Transactions in certain kinds of goods and services are forbidden, even among consenting adults. Everyone has to participate in the quotas, the price-fixing, the regimentation, like it or not.”
            It’s not about globalism, religion, nationality, or race. It’s about ideology. And there are an ample number of white American citizens who are in sympathy with the Progressive ideology. And don’

          • Who elected obummer?? Dead people, illegal aliens, massive voter fraud (voting 5~6 times) & rigged voting machines.

          • Mickey Mouse, Minnie Mouse, Sloopy, Sponge Bob, and many other cartoon characters as well as cemeteries…the list could go on forever. You do remember Chicago politics don’t you. And he did run from Chicago.

          • I’m sure there’s a profound point or question in there that’s related to one of my posts, but I guess I’m neither intelligent enough, educated enough, or sober enough to comprehend what it is. Feel free to give it another shot.

          • Only 29% of elgible American voters voted for Obama.
            71% either voted against him or didn’t vote at all.

          • Given the allegations of voter fraud during the last two elections, I’m not sure anyone can guarantee who exactly elected Obama.

          • Just for a moment, try to visualize what would have happened with $oro$$$$$$$$$ out of the equation.

          • Wouldn’t really matter. Removing Obama and Soros only remove 2 of the 50+ million who support the ideology. We need to do a better job of explaining why ours is is better.

        • Roberts did not rewrite the law, he noted that the Supreme Court recognized the attempt by Obama and Congress to HIDE a tax behind the GUISE of a penalty. He called a spade a spade — he called it a tax — and since the law originated in the Senate as accepted, it is unconstitutional because the Senate cannot initiate a tax law, only the House of Representatives can initiate a tax law, so if the GOP had been smart, they would have followed up with a lawsuit of their own that the Unaffordable Care Act was unconstitutional because it levied a tax that originated in the Senate.

          The wisdom of Robert’s move remains to be seen, if it is capitalized upon it could help America get rid of this fiasco, but if not, it could open doors for even more corruption and erosion of Constitutional checks and balances.

          Reply

        • Let’s not forget ACORN which helped get obama elected in the first place with their illegal activities and the DOD not enforcing the laws about voting more than once. I would like to see our voting precincts operate like Iraq’s first free election and put a purple ink pad at the voting precinct so when you voted you had to put your finger in the ink and then you could not go somewhere else and vote again.

          Reply

        • Roberts got it wrong for not analyzing thoroughly how the tax got into the ACA. It was really was raised in the Senate, not in the House where a tax must originate according the Constitution.

          Reply

        • This is Robert’s judicial style, he does anything he can to justify legislation passed by corrupt, self interested/deluded politicians instead of upholding the Constitution.

          Reply

        • The damage is being done to the Progressive image. This fiasco is finally going to make the American people see the light: the government doesn’t do anything well. It’s time to go back to letting people manage their own lives.

          Reply

          • Agreed. He’s still one of the good guys. Not one of my first 2 or 3 picks, but I could support him with enthusiasm.

          • Rubio cannot be president. He is not a natural born citizen. Rubio himself has already admitted this publicly.

          • Really? Can you tell me where he admitted that? I can only find something stating that from the Daily Kos and I refuse to open that link.

          • Daniel from TN… Marco Rubio was born in Miami, FL he is eligible to be president as is Ted Cruz and Bobby Jindal

          • His mother is a U.S. citizen making him eligible to be president per article 2 section 1 of the Constitution. Just like John McCain and Barack Obama

          • Where is the Consular Report of Birth Abroad, which Cruz’s parents could have obtained at the U.S. consulate in Calgary? That would at least establish their intention to register him as an American citizen while they were living in Canada. For that matter, where is Eleanor Wilson’s own birth certificate? Anyone can claim to have been born in Delaware. even a sheaf of birth certificates would still leave Cruz’s citizenship technically open to question. Under the law in effect in 1970, Cruz would only have acquired U.S. citizenship if his mother had been “physically present” in the United States for ten years prior to his birth, including five years after she reached the age of fourteen. Neither Cruz’s birth certificate, nor his mother’s, nor the Consular Report could irrefutably establish Eleanor Wilson’s residence for the necessary length of time. For all birthers know, she might have been living in Kenya!!!!!

          • I didn’t know there were liberal birthers, but by what you just wrote it looks like you’re one. From what I read in the media I thought only conservatives were questioning a certain politicians birth place. I stand corrected.

          • Marco was not entirely off the reservation with his participation in the immigration issue. He knows we need a significant number of illegals to work our farms and pick our fruit and vegetables. Without them, our food costs would go way higher than they are now and many crops couldn’t be harvested. Bush realized the same thing and tried to start a guest worker program. The democrats would not go along and nobody here wanted the jobs. They were getting too much welfare to go to work.

          • What ever happened to migrant workers? They used to come and work the fields, then go home with their money.

          • The liberals bribed them by paying them for everything. They get free housing, free medical, food stamps and the kids get free educations. They didn’t use to bring the family until we made it profitable for them to do so.

          • Marco cannot be trusted anymore — was already co-opted by GOP RINO machine ala Paul Ryan. He reversed course on “gang of 8” immigration bill (debacle) because of huge criticism…popularity tanked in Florida, nationally, and with the Tea Party.

        • The only way to really fix the damage is to find him guilty of fraud for not being a citizen. only then can we undo the appointments of liberal judges he has made.

          Reply

          • Oh plueeeze Bob, crawl back into that black hole you emerged from. A “squared circle”? You must be a legend in your own mind.

          • I already knew that mr communist. Why do you find it necessary to always state the obvious when someone makes a sarcastic remark? Now, after you are done checking my spelling, try to think of another one of your sickening comments.

          • I doubt the nation really has the patience to entertain a trial based on the conspiracy theories of some paranoid racist right-wingers.

          • Billy, do you pay attention to the sound of anybody’s voice other than your own? Do you read and comprehend the printed words of anybody other than yours. You act and communicate as though you live in a vacuum and get absolutely no truth or facts from anywhere other than your imagination. Why don’t you just dry up and blow away?

          • You’re a fringe right-winger conspiracy theorist and you think I live in a vacuum devoid of facts? You need to work on your self-awareness.

          • Just as you know your conspiracy theories are correct even though you have no ability to defend them in a debate.

        • Obama has surrounded himself with Marxists, Communists, socialists, and Democraps, has stacked the Supreme Court, is working on stacking the DC District Court, and is the most corrupt, lawless anti-American, anti-Christian president in history. How the @#$%^& are we EVER going to turn that around!!!

          Reply

        • It started as a penalty in the Senate. The bill eventually went to committee to iron out the differences between the House version and the Senate version. Coming out of committee it became a tax. Changes during committee are legally binding. It’s not right, but it is legal.

          Reply

        • Perhaps it wasn’t viewed as a tax originally in the conventional sense of the word, tax penalties not withstanding?

          With that, though, while Roberts left the door open, if it was me, I would’ve thrown the whole thing out based on the ruling. It does make me wonder what the thugs in the Democratic Party are trying to do to the Justices.

          Reply

        • All tax bills have to originate in the house. Obamacare originated in the senate. It was illegal as soon as it passed but the congress and its speaker didn’t challenge the legality in court and have it struck down. That is what John Roberts expected.

          Reply

          • YES! Someone who understands how the legislature works! Boehner should have jumped on that and by not doing so proved there’s no difference between the neocons/establishment repubs and demicraps.

      • Yes, John Roberts knew EXACTLY what he was doing when he SOLD OUT THE PEOPLE. He is just as much a traitor as John McCain and the rest of his RINO buddies. They aII need to go to JAIL
        along with Obama and his gophers, also John Boehner and McConnell.

        Reply

        • I see that tax ruling as an open door. Now we just need the House to walk through it, convince enough senators (which, given how this is all working out, might actually be pretty easy) to vote in favor, and then ensure veto-proof majorities. Oblunder the Stup(id)endous will have no choice.

          Game, set, match.

          Reply

        • Why is it so hard for people to see the out that Roberts gave the house of representatives. He made the law unconstitutional by declaring the fine to be a tax. Taxes can’t originate in the senate, only in the house. Obamacare originated in the senate. The house was so busy running around with one shoe nailed to the floor that they couldn’t comprehend what had just happened.

          Reply

      • Roberts also cited all the places in the IRS code where “person” was defined. It applies, apparently, ONLY to corporations that are “required” to pay income taxes. That is, if you are NOT a corporation, you are not a “person” under the sections of IRS code where “person” is defined. Ergo, using the argument that “corporations are not persons”, conversely, you are not a corporation!

        Reply

      • Here’s hoping. Then what will happen to the law?
        I believe one or more Justice has had a serious threat made on their life of the life of a loved one.

        Reply

      • I certainly hope your right but will not cross my fingers. The Great Equalizer he is not, and he seemed all to happy in press releases / photo opts after giving ObamaScare the thumbs up.

        Reply

      • You may be right about that. He also suggested that the Congress take a close look at the issue and make corrections. Of course he expected the republicans to act like republicans, not like democrats.

        Reply

      • At his decision I was at first outraged, then mystified. I thought – perhaps this has some strategic reason. But I cannot think of a scenario where it is to the advantage of liberty or even for Republicans. I would be grateful if you, or the several dozen who approve of your message, how tis would play out?

        Reply

      • Don’t give that party the benefit of being called “Democratic.” Since “Republican” is used as both a noun and an adjective, let us through the force of continued use nationally, turn “Democrat” into an adjective, too.

        Reply

        • What “benefit” in being called Democratic? The founders knew that Democracy is anti-freedom, which is why they gave us a Republic. In a pure Democracy, a majority of 50.1% can enslave and take the income and property of a minority of 49.9%. They viewed Democracy as the evil tyranny of the majority.

          Understand that our founding fathers were accomplished men. As one author put it, they were “the well wed, well bred, well read, and well fed.” They were very much aware that if the people were given the power of a Democracy, they (the founders) would lose everything they had. A Democracy would be more dangerous than the king.

          Reply

    • You are right. Roberts was more interested in being invited to liberal wash parties etc than doing what was right.

      Reply

      • Thanks. I recall he was acting like he finally got to hang out with the cool kids in school . . . I think he lost focus a while back cocerning his job description.

        Reply

    • i would say the odumbo has stacked the deck against hobby lobby
      allready
      the supreme court is no longer for the poeple
      but for this commie prez

      Reply

        • How about the idea that an amoral government has no right to establish any law respecting marriage. Marriage could be defined as any relationship between one or more consenting adults (consenting and adult are 2 “judgements” I think we should be allowed to make). No company would have any requirement to respect marriage. This would be completely “equal”. If we have already avoided “judging” same-sex marriage, how can we “judge” polygamy between consenting adults? I believe in traditional marriage (and last I checked, except to extremists, having an opinion that you do not inflict on others is considered Liberty and controlling the opinions of others is tyranny), and I am thrilled that my sons are both married to beautiful individuals who happen to be female. So as for equal rights … all forms of unions of consenting adults should be treated equally by the gov’t

          Reply

    • This country was founded because the people who came here were tired of not being able to worship the way they wanted. They were told by kings, “It’s my way, or else.” And if the Supreme Court (which, when it upheld the unconstitutional law of Obamacare, became the Socialist Court) upholds what Obama wants, we will eventually (and I believe it will be a matter of months) be back to King George’s day (which most countries of that day were doing.)

      Reply

    • As a non-believer myself, I still don’t thiink anybody ought to be forced to pay for something they don’t believe in. But I also don’t think anyone has a right to use the power of the vote to get someone else to pay for their health care, or for service providers to have to work for less than the fair market value of their services.

      Reply

        • Bob, that sort of dilemma is one of the things I’ve managed to avoid for most of my life by being self-employed.

          But to your point, I wouldn’t be employed by a company that has beliefs incompatible with my own. It’s a free country. Nobody is required to hire anyone, and nobody is required to work for anyone. If you don’t like your employer’s beliefs, or pay, or benefits, go work somewhere else. At the end of my Vietnam tour, I turned down a job offer with the CIA because I didn’t want to work for the government. Don’t like their beliefs.

          Reply

          • For a great many people they may not even be aware of what “the company’s beliefs” are or may need a job & have little or no choice

          • There’s always a choice, Bob. You can take the job, or not take the job. If you don’t find out ’til later that you don’t like the employer’s beliefs, you can quit, and go find another job. You can’t require the employer to change his beliefs to accommodate every employee. That’s what this lawsuit is about.

    • Oh, thought your name looked familiar — IT’S BOB THE TROLL!
      IGNORE THIS LIBTARD…just a waste of time.

      Reply

    • Hi Bob,
      What you just said is shameful. We are guaranteed under the Constitution to have the freedom to practice our religion, without government interference.

      If you value freedom, why would you want to see Christians loose theirs? When the government starts taking rights away from one group , then everyone becomes less free.

      Why allow your hatred for Christians to blind you? Whether you agree with them or not, if you love freedom, as an American, you should be standing shoulder to shoulder with them.

      I hope that the Lord blesses you in every way. I pray that He opens your eyes, softens your heart, and gives you an insatiable hunger for His word.
      Blessings in Yeshua

      Reply

      • NOBODY, is denying you your freedoms!!!! You simply CANNOT use religion as a shield to discriminate. Is that so difficult to understand?

        Reply

        • Jefferson’s COMPLETE sentence:
          “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.”

          This above explains what that pesky misunderstood separation of church and state.

          Hobby Lobby is owned by a God fearing people, they conduct their business as God fearing people and they treat their employees with great respect. That I do not believe your highly educated pea brain can understand.

          “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

          Reply

      • You guys are more than free to not accept birth control. Continue to breed the right wing children. Your right. Not your right to deny contraception to anyone because of what you believe. If a corporation hires anyone, the those anyone are entitled to same coverage as any other corporation. Mr Hobby can co is tue to dislike contraception but can’t impose on his employees.

        Reply

    • lol thats a laugh it is the left that is the bigots and racists and all the things they like to call christians, remember only those who accept Jesus will ever see the kingdom of heaven

      Reply

      • Well, that may or may not be true, but here on planet earth you cannot force your beliefs upon those that reject them

        Reply

        • you know what? we don’t care what you are, but then why would you be so critical of a christian, what makes you the expert on us and why should any government have control over our beliefs, as well as your own.

          Reply

          • Nobody cares what you believe in. But if you believe that certain Americans shouldn’t have the very same rights as the rest of us then that’s your problem & you’re just gonna have to learn how to deal with it

          • as well no one cares what you believe, I deal with it fine, but no one on the face of this earth is going to shove there faith on me

          • If you don’t believe that all Americans should have the same rights then you better open wide because THAT belief WILL be shoved down your throat whether you choke on it or not.

          • When did cimiron say or even suggest that all Americans don’t have the same rights. You have the right to be a christian and go to heaven. If you don’t believe in God that’s your choice.

    • Unlike you I’m not afraid to call a spade a spade. Grow up in a family of Italians and you learn to say what you feel and think the second you start to talk as a child, capish?

      Reply

          • Took a few too many slaps on the head and it knocked something loose? Even if he did learn something, the concussions might have undone the benefit.

            I can poke a little fun….Armenians are the same way.

          • I just know that bein a member of a family within a “Family” you learn real quick to voice an opinion or to keep your mouth shut along with suffer the consequences. I saw enuff to know the difference.

    • “A black woman sitting on her ass smoking dope & milking the
      government out of $100 a month.” Your words three days ago on an article that did not mention race or sex and no comments but yours mentioned race or sex. You do a very poor job of concealing your bigotry and racism!

      Reply

  3. John Roberts is a sell out. He knows it. We know it. He knows we know it. This bullsh*t fiasco “Health law” is not about health…or even law. It is about control.

    Reply

    • It wouldn’t surprise me if Roberts & his family was threatened by the THUG administration. I guess we will see what effect his decision has on the healthcare front.

      Reply

      • Defi Italy, dude. Meh got threatened with those poison darts…same ones who got Andrew. Be very careful. They know your name and address.

        Reply

    • I have zero confidence in Justice Roberts doing the right thing. He has already proved his own popularity quotient with the extreme radical fascist left wing religious hating bigots is more important to him than upholding Constitutional Rule of Law.

      Reply

    • True. But, this turkey is already DOA. I and my entire extended family are refusing to participate. If enough of us rebel against the fascists the thing will collapse.

      Reply

      • You have a way within the law to not participate. I wish I could participate to say if y or your extended family end up at emergency we refuse to pay your bills. Yes, some of us we the people do pay for people who get treated at emergency rooms and do not have enough money to pay bill. Could be you. But hey,opt out and pay a tax/Penalty as approved by Justice Roberts.

        Reply

        • Fascist. You’re one of those freeloaders that think JUST because you don’t have insurance you don’t owe a bill. SICK minded person and the CAUSE of the failure of the nation today. Did you SEE something about not paying ONES OWN BILLS? NO YOU DID NOT. And so far I have paid ALL of my own bills both with and WITHOUT insurance. DO NOT DO risky things in life and you tend NOT to need an emergency room.

          Reply

  5. This is the last of our freedoms when the govrernment can tell a private business what it can or cannot do…all the “agencies” that decide how. We are to live and think, and wear and say and eat and earn our livliehoods..the government under BHO wants complete CONTROL of ALL Americans…and where shall we go when this is done? If we don’t fight back now it will be too late.

    Reply

  6. Please somebody more knowledgeable more than me please explain how is it possible that the Fearless Jerk runnin this Country has the right to stick his nose into anybody’s business or religion? I honestly think he’s goin too far with what he’s doin and not to mention lettin his broodmare of a “wife” tell folks how to feed other’s children and how to raise their kids. Has she bothered to look at her ass? That’s why I call her a broodmare.

    Reply

      • I’ve thought that for sometime and have actually had holes in my cheeks from bitin the inside of my mouth but didn’t wanna say anything b/c I knew once I did his supporters would come in out of the woodwork and tell me that I was predjustice.

        Reply

        • I used to feel the same way, however not any more, I am not predjustice and I know it so anyone that says I am it’s like sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me, that is my attitude and if they don’t like it tough

          Reply

      • Usually, I’ll give you credit for at least attempting to be intelligent.

        Not this time- trotting out the race card is moronic in this instance. Give it a rest, seriously.

        Reply

      • I really feel sorry for you if you think for one second I’m goin to accept you crude, rude, and anti social assessment of me; Bubba BTW I once weighed 185 so don’t go there about tryin to tell me I’m a sexist or predjusticed. I was raised in New Orleans where I had many friends who were Black and some of em actually made somethin of themselves comin away with College Degrees and onto make some of the most promient doctors and attornies thruout New Orleans and other parts of the Country.

        Reply

    • hey man you should feel sorry for her… how would you feel if you had to haul such a large a$$ around, it must be very tiring…that is why she wants to help you feed your kids so they don’t grow up with that problem…

      Reply

      • for the record, I’m a female and I don’t need some other female who’s not worth a hill of beans without a degree in nutrition to tell me how to feed my kids

        Reply

  9. “NOR THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF.”

    The supreme court has no say in the matter other than to tell the other two branches of government to “BUTT OUT!!!”

    Any other statement will invalidate the supreme court, the same position the administration and legislative branches are finding themselves.

    Reply

  11. Please feel free to cut and paste and make this YOUR own letter to the editor, Congress, whoever. I am not going to waste MY time arguing with pissants, fools and paid leftist stooges:

    In my lifetime as an adult (1970’s to present), the “citizens of the several states” have gone from being free to own what they wished, live as they wished, speak as they wished, read what they wished, hold views that they wished, carry guns openly (even IN Washington DC)… to what we have now. Police units patrolling in full body armor, ready to wrestle 85-year-old women in wheel chairs to the pavement and using tasers on anyone “suspicious-looking”…

    Before this so-called “modern” era, we only had to protect property from burglars and robbers…

    NOW we are faced with the necessity to protect ALL our liberty-enshrined freedoms from our very own governments! This is appalling.

    What happened to the people in Montana and other states to allow themselves to be lorded over by Federal despotism?

    Where are the state legislatures in whose realm the few non-prohibited powers lie? Aren’t they supposed to “check” Federal tyranny?

    The Feudal era ended centuries ago. Yet, it has been re-born in MY lifetime, aided and abetted by greed and corruption at the highest levels of all government.

    The people who protested most loudly such abuses in the 1950-70’s era are the VERY SAME people who promote this thuggery!

    I am angry at the attitude of those who think this is “okay” [or who stand aside quietly acquiescing to it]. They have made me their enemy.

    Isn’t it time for the people of every state to re-take the field – and demand that their representatives TRULY represent THEM and not some “gnu whirled odor”?

    Do people really want to be serfs, to live as mealy-mouthed little slaves, willing to enter a shower without testing the temperature of the water first?!

    Reply

  12. Low information as usual. Reviewing regulation to require coverage of Birth Control….not providing Obamacare. The two are totally different. Court could rule the law cannot require coverage of contraception for religious beliefs. A still have to provide health care per the law.

    Reply

      • It doesn’t matter what the Obummer does if the supreme court rules in favor of Hobby Lobby… no executive order can nullify or negate a SCOTUS decision. He can issue executive orders until he’s blue in the face and it cannot have any effect whatsoever on Hobby Lobby or anyone or anything else outside of the federal executive branch of government. Anyone who believes that the executive branch can rule by fiat also believes in despotic government a la Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, et al.

        Reply

  14. Hopefully, the Supremes will just say the 10th Circuit was correct and let their ruling stand. I lieu of that, I am very concerned about Justice Roberts………but, that’s just me.

    Reply

  17. Hobby Lobby has some big mountains to climb to over come ** OBONZO – the anointed & magnificent one – ** along with ** ERIC – – SS- GESTAPO – – HOLDER ** and company – along with the US Supreme Court LIBERALS..

    Reply

  18. So, Obama has made it clear that he wants religious exercise to stay inside churches? If he gets way on this, then Moosleem women should have to have their pictures taken withOUT their burkas on for all ID pictures, like drivers licenses.

    Reply

  19. If the Court refuses to hear this case, I think this will open a lot of doors for a LOT of challenges on many different grounds.

    If they take it, and Hobby Lobby wins, the same thing will result, and along with it, could possibly be a repeal.

    If the government wins, we can still fall back to 2011 and repeal it as part of the IRC.

    Either way, we CAN win.

    Reply

    • I’m afraid we may soon find out. It looks like a lot of people are already losing their full-time employment as it stands.

      I’ve been slowly working on getting a little something for myself going, and I’m hoping it’ll work, because I don’t see full-time work in my near future.

      Reply

      • I’m thankful that I don’t have to worry about employment anymore because I am retired. My youngest son, however, has been unemployed for a very long time until last tuesday. My heart goes out to everyone of you in that situation and I only hope there are more democrats than otherwise affected.

        Reply

  21. obama himself has already established the legal precedent for allowing religious organizations to opt out of the ACA by exempting all Muslims from compliance.

    Reply

  22. “. . . And then Hobby Lobby won their case in the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals. But that wasn’t the end of the story. OBAMA FIRED BACK WITH AN APPEAL OF HIS OWN.”

    Piece of garbage has lowered himself and made a laughing stock out of the presidency. People wonder why we don’t even respect the position anymore. What’s there to respect? He is lower than a used-car salesman! He goes out selling his own insurance. Sheesh! Why doesn’t he just go door to door with his samples and open his commie briefcase to show us his wares! His job isn’t to SUE companies trying to make a living!!! His job is supposed to be a president!!! And because people OPPOSE the crap he shoves down our throats, he’ll go to ANY extreme, any length to just “GET THEM!”

    He’s stacked the Supreme Court — so good luck Hobby Lobby! And now he’s working on stacking the DC District Court!!

    Why hasn’t ANYONE stopped this man and his agenda? WHY do they let this continue?

    Reply

  23. There is one thing that this crooked God Forsaken Obama adminstration cannot do and that is force you to stay in business. I am at retirement age and I own my own business. All of my equipment is paid off so if he wants to try and force me to comply with any of the corrupt Obamacare, he can kiss my ass because I will retire and collect Social Secuirty. Then he can find another business to pay my share of welfare for his constitutents. I will bet that I am not the only one who feels this way. Another thing is these Liberal Democrat athiests think they are so smart, then tell me just exactly why about 90% of all of the people in the world believe in God or Allah or some religious deity. In truth, these atheist idiots probably make up less than 5%. The true test of intelligence is when you understand what you DO NOT KNOW, not how much you think that you do know. By the way it is time to boycott Nebraska Gold Card because he fired the golfer that was representing him over religious displays. on his golf bag.

    Reply

    • The idiot liberals can’t think forward enough to realize that with fewer and fewer businesses/employees paying in there’ll be less and less to fund their idiocy.

      Reply

  24. Roberts should be impeached. It is not his responsibility to re-write legislation to suit himself and Barack Obama. These justices also need to be replaced every few years; these lifetime appointments produce crazies with tenure. We don’t need any more Roberts, Ginsbergs, Sotomayers, Anthonys, Kennedys, or Kagans. These nut cases are enemies of the American people.

    Reply

  25. He OWNS three judges on the Supreme Court.
    Hobby Lobby does NOT preach when you go into their store.
    They have great employees and you have to force yourself NOT to overspend.
    It is a GREAT place to shop.

    Reply

    • They are also some of the highest paid chain store employes in the Country. They have great benefits even for some part time employes. BTW Chick-fil-A has some of the same employee benefits. Both great Companies to work for and for ALL of us to support as much as possible. Businesses like this are all to few and far between.

      Reply

  26. Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.”
    If I but buy into the new health insurance tax at all, I am compromised indeed. This” tax law” propagates abortion and contraception of human life. My morality demands that I support neither.

    Reply

  27. Now if the religion were to be Islam, then there wouldn’t be any problem, because Islam is exempt from Obamacare.

    Reply

  28. Corporations have no religious views. The people behind the corporations have no right to disobey the law, any more than a shoplifter would. No matter the cause, in the US we follow the law. Don’t like the law? Elect people to change it. Oh, right, you keep LOSING!

    Reply

    • How pompous!!!

      You lefties never break the law? What have you been smoking?
      You have the idea that “civil disobedience” is a calling from God – oh, excuse me… That’s right, most of you don’t believe in God!

      You think it’s your duty to break the law whenever you think it will help you make a point. Not only are you lawbreakers, you’re liars, as well.

      Reply

    • And I am sure you never partake of or benefit from the same corporations you complain of . . . as you sit in your heated abode and use your computer to post your predictable and skewed thoughts.

      Reply

    • I am astounded how often religious people confuse battles for equality with persecution, because equality cannot include the special privileges they feel entitled to

      Reply

      • You speck of equality yet you would denie our rights to follow the teachings of God.
        Let me ask you a question? As a parent would you allow your children to till you what house rules they will and will not follow. Till you have to change your views because your child and other children believe you are wrong?
        God is the creator and father of us all and he sets the rolls not us, his children. You don’t want to believe in God fine don’t but don’t till me I can’t and that I am not allowed to follow his laws because you don’t like them. This is exactly what you are saying that we are not allowed to follow his laws out side or homes or church because you don’t believe in his laws or his laws denies you equal rights under man’s laws. I don’t care what you do God is the judge not me, but don’t till me I can not follow Gods laws because you don’t believe in God or his laws.

        Reply

        • NOBODY is telling you that you cannot believe in ANYTHING you want. What the Supreme Court will tell you is that you’re free to believe anything you like but you CANNOT discriminate against American citizens. Let me ask you this… Suppose my religion told me that black people were “cursed” and shouldn’t have the same rights as “white people” would it be OK for me not to hire black people & not serve them my chicken sandwiches in a chain of stores I had throughout the nation?

          Reply

          • Tilling me or anyone in business they well pay for murdering a unborn child is denying us are rights to follow the laws of God.
            Were not talking about black or white we are taking about life and in a womb if you well look at the pitchers take is life, the unborn child, moves, breaths, has a heart beat that is life and you want to destroy it.
            We are also not talking about work we are talking about making employers pay for someone who get pregnant from unprotected sex. Just because one does not which to protect themselves from getting pregnant does not mean a business should pay for it. You want to murder your unborn child pay for it yourself. You want to have sex? fine have all you want but not expect someone ells to pay for what happens after words or pay for the cost of contraceptives that should be YOUR responsibility. Business should not pay for their employees pleasures or fun and games and the likes. You get pregnant that’s your fault not the businesses fault.

          • What difference does it make what were talking about if I claim I have a book written by god that says black people are cursed & shun them???

          • I never said you will burn, God decides what happens to us on judgment day not me. You are tilling me to pay for abortion and that is not right. People should pay for their misstates not business and if a person gets pregnant that’s there fault and there partners fault not the business.
            You seam to be unable to understand that concept. A business should not pay for your or anyone’s fun and pleasures. There are consequences for unsafe sex and a business should not pay for it.

          • Red herring. This is all about preserving human life, not about trying to claim a right to abuse people.

          • You should not be able to force anyone to facilitate what they see as murder, whether their reasons are religious or otherwise. Science makes it quite clear that abortion is murder and anyone who is not deluding themselves can see that – it is a very rational objection and does not have to be religious to be valid.
            Humanity has prohibitions on murder that apply to religious and non-religious alike. You still may not kill your neighbor if you are atheist.

          • You are soooooo wrong!

            Somebody IS trying to tell us what we can and can’t believe. When this New World Order comes into the public schools and teaches our children the sanctity of same sex marriage, do you think we shouldn’t complain?? Why not, Bob? Because YOU believe same-sex marriage is appropriate when it is not. As a non-believer, you lack a moral compass.

          • You don’t need religion to have a moral compass and same sex marriage is indeed appropriate for any society that respects equality and human rights. America is changing and its deciding that your bigotry is not longer appropriate.

          • I won’t debate the moral value of religion, because you “open-minded” people live by a different set of values to which there is no right or wrong.

            The liberal use of the word equality is another way of saying redistribution of assets. This country is based on capitalism, liberty, fairness, and justice NOT equality. Everyone is not equal, because everyone has their own mind and makes their own choices.

            If you like equality so much, move to Europe – socialism should fit you just fine…

          • Our side is absolutely winning the culture war, your make believe god isn’t going to change that. This is a country of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Mormons, atheists and so on. This is no longer a “Christian country” regarding society and policy making, it’s more of a secular country.
            And no I’m not worried that Obama is the “devil incarnate” anymore than I’m worried that Obama is the Easter bunny incarnate.

          • Billy/Bob is like a mosquito in your ear that you need to brush away and ignore. Be free of that combo and focus energy and efforts on what we can do to avoid tyranny. They are distractions.

          • I suppose you are right.

            I don’t worry about Bob; he knows what he’s getting into.

            But Billy sounds like a lost little boy who is struggling to sound like a man in the big, bad, scary world of adults.
            I mean “suck my billy willy” – how many men over 16 would come up with a comment like that? Maybe it is best to ignore Billy and not provoke him.

            There ARE more important things to worry about.
            Thanks, FightEvil.

          • Excellent reply. However it is wasted on Billy. He lacks the intelligence to understand anything.

          • Thanks, Ron… But I worry about Billy.

            I would guess he’s a pre-teen struggling with his identity. He’s said some inappropriate things on this site.

            However, you’re right not to waste time on him.
            So I won’t anymore…

        • Your belief in God has no relevance to policy making in 2013. Enjoy your relationship with God in your home and church, but politically America has democratically rejected the rule of law by any religious texts.

          Reply

          • Your hatred for God WILL not stop me from following GOD’s law any were I want. You or the laws of man can not and will not stop those who follow God from do so in or out of our home. You and not make us follow your evil ways.
            If you have the right not to believe in God out side your home then I have a right to follow his laws out side of my home.
            Man kind will never stop the laws of God and one day his judgment well rain down on this world belief in him or not well not stop him from poring down his judgment.

        • What kind of useless idiot makes these kind of worthless posts repeatedly? A sexually repressed useless idiot named Tommy.

          Reply

  30. There are two possibilities:

    1. The supreme court did not hear the appeal. Obama ignores the Constitution.

    2. The supreme court hears the case. John Roberts rewrites the law as a tax, and therefore rules that Hobby Lobby isn’t actually paying for contraception.

    Reply

  31. Just because one is in business and believes in God don’t mean they should pay for someone to murder their unborn child. Anyone who says abortion is not murder then look at an ultrasound of a unborn child and then till me its not a child and I will till you that you are blind. In side a womb is a living child.
    Just because one is in business does not mean they should be forced to violate their faith in the teachings of God. if you don’t believe in God I well support your right not to believe and if one does then they have the right to follow their faith. There are few exception and that is if your faith says its ok to murder, or ok to marry and or have sex with a child, there I draw the line.

    Reply

    • Where you Christians come up with Abortion is murder is really beyond me. According to the law of Moses abortion is not murder & a fetus is not considered a human life
      If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. — Exodus 21:22-23
      The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.
      And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. — Leviticus 27:6
      Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.
      Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. — Numbers 3:15-16

      Reply

      • I can not see how you can not see it as murder that’s a life in the womb even if you don’t want to believe it. We all were in the womb at one time and yet here you are so are you saying that you are not alive? Go back and read the bible from cover to cover. You do not under stand the bible and you apparently don’t believe in it.

        Reply

          • Fine don’t, I don’t till you to follow it so don’t till me I can not follow it and till us that we can not follow it is just as wrong as me tilling you to follow it. By tilling business owners to pay for abortion is saying they are not allowed to follow it.

          • Of course a secular humanist extreme left wing fascist party death democrat such as you would not believe the Bible! Your belief is obviously in sacrificing the most innocent of life, unborn babies, at the altar in the temple of big government and the fools and clowns who you have elevated to god-like status to rule over your pathetic and empty life. You and your filthy and disgusting party of death democrats celebrate all those deaths with your sacrament of the blood of all those innocent victims you are responsible for murdering, which you gulp down from that cup with glee and delight.

            We understand you agree 100%+ with your party of deaths bigoted stand against anything Christian. You are a willing mouthpiece for spreading lies, disinformation and propaganda from those extreme radical fascist far left political leaders who you fall on your knees and worship daily. Your comments here are worthless as they show no originality of thought nor coherent arguments. Indeed, your arguments are nothing but emotional whining that everybody will not reject their God and/or their religion the way you have, even going so far as trying to twist Bible verses to your evil, twisted and perverted agenda of murdering more babies in the womb.. Your comments here resemble more the petulance and distemper of a two-year-old child throwing a temper tantrum than anything resembling intellectual thought.

          • If you think your idiotic word salad is “intellectual thought” then you have a mental illness. By the way the vast majority of people and intellectual academia considers fascism to be right-wing.

          • Your replies are typical of every extremist radical FASCIST pig left wingnut party of death democrat! All hot-air and absolutely no substance. No surprise from one such as you who is incapable of carrying on an adult conversation and instead resorts to ad hominem and four letter type word attacks in place of intellectual argument! But since I never expect better of the extreme radical FASCIST left party of death members, I am never disappointed when I see your regurgitated obama vomit, the vomit your dear leader 0bama spews and which you so willing lick up! In fact, it’s rather amusing to watch you of the extreme radical FASCIST left flail about while never once being able to back your absurd claims with FACTS!

            If you had received a real education instead of the propaganda, lies and disinformation that you of the extreme radical fascist left try to pass off as education today, you would be able to understand that fascism has its roots in communism/socialism. Both communism and fascism compete for the same type of people, people easily influenced by left-wing philosophies. But HEY!! I bet you were the fastest in your government run classroom to put that condom on the cucumber!

          • That’s nice. Shame your moronic word salad doesn’t change the reality that almost the entire nation of Germany considers the Nazis and fascism to be right-wing, that the vast majority of academia (you know, those people with a real education) considers fascism to be right wing, and that the American electorate in general perceives fascism to be right-wing. Now those are some facts.

          • With that statement you have demonstrated that you lack the knowledge to write anything that is worth reading!

          • It’s a life that God has taken, he is a murderer the same as any abortion doctor by that standard of murder.

          • You steal have not told me how its God’s fault. Just because a women has a miscarriage does not mean God cased it and besides God crated us all and our lives is his to take at his will. Doctors are not God and have not the right to act like it.

          • If it is Gods will for a baby to die in the womb, and that baby dies of a miscarriage because it is Gods will, how is God not responsible?

          • You did not read my entire post did you? First Miscarriages can happen because someone other then God screwed up and caused harm to the unborn baby. If God did cause the miscarriage then that is his right to do so as the creator of us all. Two God created us and we live and die according to his plain nor ours and three Doctors have no right to play God on who lives and who dies which baby has a right to be born and which does not have the right. If a women does not want a baby then she and her partner should do all they can to ensure the women does not become pregnant and not use abortion as a means of birth control, that precaution should have been taken before having sex.

          • So what you’re saying is that you’re happy to worship a god that murders babies as he has a right to murder all the babies he likes as their his creations? I think I get it.

          • You just don’t get it do you? You never answered my questions
            1. How is a miscarriage God’s fault?
            2. Do you hate Doctors? They perform more abortions then women have miscarriages.

          • God has killed far more fetuses than any individual doctor. At least the doctors are killing unwanted fetuses, unlike god when he randomly murders babies in the womb through miscarriage.

          • You are wrong on both counts. A miscarriage is not Gods fault. Two Doctors murder baby’s that are wanted. There are a lot of loving people who want children but can’t and the women who murders her unborn baby is evil and selfish. she don’t want it fine put it up for adaption. My brothers wife would not have children and they were blessed with a baby the were able to adopt because the mother was not a murder nor was she selfish. She know she could not keep the child so instead of murdering the baby she put her up for adoption.
            I just don’t understand how you can blame God for miscarriage when he does not cause them and if he does were is your proof? Just because a women has a miscarriage is not proof that God caused it.

            1. How is a miscarriage God’s fault?
            2. Do you hate Doctors? They perform more abortions then women have miscarriages.

          • You steal have not answered my two questions, is it because you have no proof to back your clam. My questions were:

            1. How is a miscarriage God’s fault?
            2. Do you hate Doctors? They perform more abortions then women have miscarriages.

      • Perhaps because you’re not Christian you really don’t know better, but the Book of Moses is from the Old Testamant; it does not clarify Christian teaching. With the coming of Christ, many laws in the Old Testament were re-established by Christ (ie baptism instead if circumcision, permitting the consumption of pork…).

        If you’re trying to convince us abortion is not murder, it’s a waste of time. Maybe a group of pagans would be willing to listen…

        Reply

        • This dubious interpretation of a “new covenant” (in which the laws of Moses is no longer valid) is something Christians had to invent to live in secular societies & cannot be found without twisting scripture to mean whatever you want it to mean. jesus even said “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets”!!!!

          Reply

          • I never said Christ claimed the Laws of Moses were no longer valid; Christ fulfilled the Old Testament by establishing its purpose. Some of the technicalities were no longer necessary for the freed people. If you study both the old and new covenants, you would understand.

            There is little value to the Covenants outside of context.

          • No your wrong, the covenants have been established forever. Christ has yet to return and at the second coming will fulfill the rest.

          • No, I’m not wrong.

            As a Catholic, we believe Christ fulfilled the Old Testament and established a New Testament.

            Revelation provides insight to the His second coming.

            Not sure why my comment was unclear, perhaps semantics?

          • Not semantics. But Yes he did fulfill the old established the new. But God does not contradict himself. In Revelation it says we will go up to Worship every Sabbath and New Moon, in the New Kingdom. A lot of the Covenants were counted by days and the moon. So Jesus fulfilled sacrifices, and will return the 2nd time for the resurrection, and get rid ofil forever. The

          • Christ came to fulfill the law, not abolish it. Christ became our Passover lamb. And from then on the physical animal sacrifices at Passover were no longer needed, for forgiveness of sins. Christ allowed himself to be sacrificed, as his shedding of his innocent lifes blood, covered all of mans sins, if man repents. Christ had to allow the crusifixation, (sp?)- as he could of called on the Legions Angels who would of immediately come to his aid. But he came to fulfill scripture.

          • Oh, then you don’t mean that Christ now permits consumption of pork. Which the dietary laws were Never changed by Christ at all. Some people misunderstand and think God who is the same yesterday, today and forever changes his laws. Just a comment lest someone stumbles at the example you stated..

          • Haven’t quite figured out what you’re getting at?
            Perhaps to prove I don’t know what I’m talking about?

            If you have something to say to Bob, say it.
            But please don’t put a Protestant spin on my words.
            If you believe nothing changes within the Church, I’m not sure what Church you attend. I can give you a long list of practices that have been adapted to the times.

            However, Christ’s Dogma will never change.

          • I’m just saying what the Bible says. I’m a Christian and my source is the Bible, not necessary what churches say, as they all have at least some truth in them. But the Bible is a Christians source Book directly from God. So just sayin’. You have a nice day, hope it is a good one.

      • The following statement has NOTHING to do with abortion & EVERYTHING to do with the penalty for killing a child in utero :

        “If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. — Exodus 21:22-23”

        You are apparently confused, dishonest, or both. I am certain those in your immediate life dread to see you arrive.

        Reply

    • Y’know, you don’t even have to believe in God to know this is murder. I support any atheist who wants to claim a conscience exemption as well; any atheist who believes abortion is murder ought to be exempt too.

      Reply

  32. Hopefully, the Court will come down on the side of the US Constitution. In Purpura v Sebelius the government defaulted and the Courts manufactured a Standing argument in order to not rule against the federal government. Some of the courts have done this multiple times. Remember, besides this violation of the US Constitution there are multiple violations of Article 1 Sections 7 through 9, Amendments 4, 5, 8, 10, 13, 14, etc.

    Reply

  34. as mr. minkoff said for now that man wants religion to stay in the churches (for now). i would like to know why a bolt of lightning doesn’t hit him in the ass when he has the nerve to sit it on a pew on Sunday.

    Reply

    • Here some lyrics from one of my favorite songs. I like to sing it during thunderstorms.

      “So here’s a challenge, if your god is so mighty, tell him to fight me.
      Strike me down, right now, just send a bolt of lightning.”

      So far, I haven’t gotten so much as a static cling.

      Reply

  35. The court already upheldp ObamaCare once, instead of the Constitution, they will side with their Communist leader again……….

    Reply

    • The Roberts Court.

      Is Roberts a closet Prog or did he realize that the ACA would crash and take down the Progs with it.

      We do know he has good information…

      It is his judgement we do not understand…

      YET!

      Reply

  36. You keep writing this as though it were a make or break for Obamacare. The only objection is contraception and abortions. Neither are expensive and there is no reason those affected could not afford their own birth control pills. You are making a very big deal about a very small item.

    Personally, If Obama wins, I hope Hobby Lobby has the nerve to terminate all full time employees and convert them to part time. Then Obama can pick up the tab for healthcare of the 13,000 employees along with the thousands of others that will follow. Hobby Lobby is privately owned by a Christian family. They will not surrender to Obamacare. If they have to they will close. Then Obama can pick up the tab for all their former employees unemployment as well as their healthcare.

    Reply

    • If Hobby Lobby were to do what they’ve threatened and close their doors, they would simply demonstrate to the world just how immoral people can be when they lose track of doing good for goodness sake, and stick to dogmatic principals to the detriment of their fellow man.

      Reply

  37. It is really not that hard when Satan is your mentor we have a Catholic Pelosi,a jew Barbara Boxer,a Mormon Reid,a jew Schumer,Bloomberg Supreme Court Kagan,Sotomayor,Ginsberg it shure looks like the devils brigade,E Holder Episcopalian shame on the Churches that permit this crap of deceit and lies

    Reply

      • Here’s the problem with your phony little graphic, you childish and immature little left wing extremist fascist party of death democrat: Conservatives are the only people left in America today advocating for freedom, while your party of death is the real theocracy, advocating secular humanism and worship of big government and those who rule over you. You of the extreme radical fascist left have only one desire, that is to force everyone to drink from the cup of aborted babies blood that is the sacrament in your filthy and vile church of secular humanism.

        Reply

        • The world outside of the American right-wing bubble considers fascism to be right-wing, and yes that includes countries like Germany and Italy.

          Reply

          • For you members of the extreme radical far left wing party of death democrats, any person just slightly right of your heroes Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Mussolini and other assorted tyrants, dictators and miscreant of the far, far left throughout history would be considered “right wing.” Any political philosophy just slightly left of your socialist and communistic agenda, but still to the far left, would also be considered by you party of death members to be of the “right wing.” Of course you are now publicly showing how your pathetic “education” was so incomplete as to have left out the part where Mussolini, the founder of Italian fascism, was a committed communist/socialist prior to his days as a fascist. In fact, Mussolini was an editorialist for a communist rag calling itself a newspaper. Another part of your incomplete education, which you either slept through our was not taught at all, was that Hitler was employed by a certain German Communist Party operation to spy on other political groups vying for power in post-World War I Germany prior to becoming enamored the group that was destined to become the core of his new fascist government.

            For the extreme radical fascist left wing party of death members such as you, the State is everything, there is nothing for you outside of the State, and you can never find anything against the State.

          • Conservatives are just as concerned with “the state” moron, they just use nationalism and patriotism as a motivator to do what’s in the interest of “the state”. Nationalism is the key element of fascism, Nazi Germany forced Jews, homosexuals, immigrants and other non-whites into slave labor for Germany’s private sector, Hitler used this industry to fuel a war in which his main aim was to defeat the communist Soviet Union. In Germany the Nazis main enemies before establishing power were the communists and during WW2 Hitlers main aim was to defeat the Soviets, a cause later taken up by Reagan and Thatcher.
            This is reality Juan, this is why the Nazis are universally considered to be “right-wing” in Germany and everywhere outside the fringe right bubble.

          • I guess you, billy-0 are completely incapable of ever having a polite and intellectual adult conversation. No surprise from extremist radical fascist left wingnut government worshiping child such as you. Your use of ad hominem attacks is so typical of one who has no valid arguments and no coherent thought process, again such as you. Your stretching of the truth beyond recognition, your campaign of repeating the lies, propaganda and disinformation spewed from the lips of your dear Lord God Obama, you know, the one you worship five times daily, is boring and has no relevance to actual historic events or facts. So until he can grow up and act like an adult, and gain some grasp of historical truths, it is completely worthless to try to discuss anything with you. You know nothing, and you are seemingly very proud of the fact that there is nothing inside your head except hot air.

            By the way, my comment “the State is everything, there is nothing for you outside of the State, and you can never find anything against the State” from above was a test of your actual knowledge of fascism. You failed! The words I used are almost an exact quote from one of your heroes, the fascist Mussolini! I have never once in my life heard a Conservative use words such as those used by your hero Mussolini! For that matter, I have never heard any Conservative use words such as those spewed by another one of your heroes, Adolf Hitler!

          • I’ve provided factual and valid arguments and also alerted you to the reality that the vast majority of people, including academics, consider fascism to be right wing. You’ve posted a mindless word salad which is little different to every other post you’ve made.

          • Reminder that you can’t argue against any of this because it’s a factual argument of historical truths:
            “Conservatives are just as concerned with “the state” moron, they just use nationalism and patriotism as a motivator to do what’s in the interest of “the state”. Nationalism is the key element of fascism, Nazi Germany forced Jews, homosexuals, immigrants and other non-whites into slave labor for Germany’s private sector, Hitler used this industry to fuel a war in which his main aim was to defeat the communist Soviet Union. In Germany the Nazis main enemies before establishing power were the communists and during WW2 Hitlers main aim was to defeat the Soviets, a cause later taken up by Reagan and Thatcher.
            This is reality Juan, this is why the Nazis are universally considered to be “right-wing” in Germany and everywhere outside the fringe right bubble.”

          • Is the idea of not bowing down to a deity of some kind so alien to you that you simply cannot fathom that someone could live a life free of the idea of a god? Obama is no god. He is simply a human being, just as we all are.

        • What a vivid and disgusting imagination you have, however, I do believe it is usually the religious who symbolize the drinking of blood and cannibalization of their deity.

          You clearly have no idea what secular humanism is all about. I’ve included a definition for the term below.
          sec·u·lar hu·man·ism
          noun
          1. humanism, with regard in particular to the belief that humanity is capable of morality and self-fulfillment without belief in God.

          Reply

  41. I can say that: I have a whole lot of education and am in fact in college right now at 57 years old, and yet, that did NOT stop me from acknowledging that Jesus Christ is God and HE alone is the ONLY reason why i have made it to this day and to the acknowledge the FACT that w/out GOD/Jesus Christ, I can do “NOTHING”!! Education without Salvation is damnation!!! 1 Peter 3;18 KJV

    Reply

  42. “But, for now, he certainly doesn’t want religious ideology getting in the way of his progressive plans for the country.” Instead of progressive plans, digressive plans seems to be a better description on how Obama’s plans have affected our country.

    Reply

  44. CIVIL LIBERTIES ARE RELIGIOUS LIBERTIES AND RIGHTS ALSO. Destroy the right to exercise religious practices, and THE WHOLE NATION BECOMES ACCURSED for it’s sake! – God ignores “Christians” that do not KEEP His Laws as He Commanded according to JOHN’s writings (and others), and 95% of so-called “Christians” are in opposition to GOD by their infidel practices, by keeping a man’s law OVER God’s LAW, and that has “cursed” (see into the 2nd.Commandment of those who “hate” God by refusing to follow Him as requested)… God does NOT Change His RULES, only men “think” to change them, but end up being displaced persona-non-grata to Him while they are not repenting. NOW Government under the High Corruptor C-I-C, thinks to take USA’s people down to HELL with him and his immoral and unethical cronies! – NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL “CHRISTIANS” TO GET BACK TO WHAT GOD DESIGNED, and leave the opposing day behind that is making them INFIDELS to Him. The knowledge it RIGHT THERE IN THE BIBLE, but Satan-Led ministers are misleading everyone! See what Jesus said about NEVER CHANGING GOD’S LAWS, but to fulfil them – make them easier for us,than what laws the priests had ADDED to over centuries… making life miserable like a heavy weight around their necks.
    If you don’t do as God asks you to, He wont know you, – will not help you even to be saved physically or spiritually! Noah KNEW, Moses knew, the Christian Jews who escaped the siege of Jerusalem in AD70… KNEW and ACTED on the KNOWLEDGE – saving their LIVES… while those unbelievers left in Jerusalem ALL WERE SLAUGHTERED! – Ask yourselves, “DO I WANT TO BE AN UNBELIEVER in God’s WAY?” … seriously, this now becomes a LIFE and DEATH situation developing! – Jews who escaped GERMANY just before the “KristalNacht” were mostly saved by their faith and actions. If Americans cannot get back to morality, then they cause immorality to fester! – That is the principle of God’s design in “Thou art either FOR Me, OR Against”…. THINK! Read your Bible for ANSWERS, only IF you are honestly looking to Follow God and not a man-god!

    Reply

  46. The Republic is in extreme danger. Obama is packing the DC Court of Appeals and will do the same elsewhere. He isn’t done with the Supreme Court of the United States either. Once Obama gets his appointments on the federal bench – they will retire there. Congress rarely impeaches federal judges. The last time they did, I think, the degenerate ran for Congress in Florida and now is a senior Democrat in the House – Alcee Hastings. True to form, another Democrat criminal on the Hill! The only real way America will regain what Obama and his criminals have taken away is to get his presidency annulled. Time is not on Obama’s side. The facts are leaking out and his top lieutenants know that, although he is still in denial. Barry “Bath House” Obama is facing extreme political embarrassment and failure.

    Reply

    • Obama won reelection 332-206 you idiot, do you call that “extreme embarrassment and failure”? After a comfortable election win and currently moderate poll numbers (which no longer matter by the way) you think his presidency is going to be “annulled”? What do you even mean by that?
      You saying anyone else is in denial may be the most ironic thing posted on the entire Internet.

      Reply

      • You’re not in a friendly place, Billy.
        Either YOU’RE an idiot or you’re looking for a fight.
        Which is it?

        You call Obama’s poll numbers “moderate” and have the nerve to call MilitaryVeteran an idiot?

        Bet you’re happy his poll numbers don’t matter anymore…

        Reply

        • Obamas poll numbers are moderate, especially compared to other Presidents during the same point in their presidency. If you think Obamas poll numbers are a disaster you need to do some research on how low Bushs approval rating went. (Hint, quite a bit lower than Obamas current numbers).
          But of course, the numbers that really matter are Obama 332-206 Romney.

          Reply

  47. Maybe Judge Roberts will make up for his Obamacare Boo Boo, and make things right. Sully you are right, lots of prayers are needed to stop the Gov. from taking over our lives.

    Reply

    • Can Scientific Illiteracy Be Protected as Religious Freedom? it’s hard to give much credence to their objections when they say they don’t want to pay for drugs that cause abortion. Because if they were paying attention in ninth grade health class, they would know birth control doesn’t cause abortions. It prevents them.

      Reply

      • Kathleen Sebelius of Health and Human Services decreed on Monday that under Obamacare, all Americans will be required to pay for other people’s birth control pills AND morning-after pills – including a morning after pill that is a close cousin of the abortion pill, RU-486. Insurers will be banned from charging recipients any co-pays,co-insurance charges, or deductibles for such pills, and the citizenry as a whole will therefore share the costs.

        Reply

        • You do realize that the Affordable Care Act does not provide health care benefits for people, right? It simply lays down new guidelines for insurance companies to follow. Also, do you realize that the way insurance works, right? We all pay premiums in the hopes that we never need it. That money does not go into a personal account to cover our needs only, when they occur. It goes into a pool that the insurance company uses to pay any and all claims. YOU ALREADY ARE CONTRIBUTING MONEY THAT IS BEING USED TO FUND TREATMENTS AND PROCEDURES THAT YOU WOULDN’T CHOOSE FOR YOURSELF!!!!!!

          Reply

          • The whole problem here, that you don’t seem to get, is it used to be OUR decision on how we received/payed for OUR health care, now, we are REQUIRED to do as the government tells us, or we pay a tax.
            How much health insurance, if ANY, we, as employees received from an employer was an agreement between two parties. Now we only get what the government says we can. You do understand the difference between private agreements and government force don’t you?

          • Oh no the evil government is forcing the people of the worlds fattest nation to have healthcare what an evil government.

          • Yes, indeed, EVIL government!

            In a “free” country, “of the people, and by the people” the government has NO right (or ability) to force “citizens” to do anything! Only a totalitarian government has that ability, I will, as a free and sovereign citizen never acknowledge the right of the government to coerce me to do anything, much less pay for some fat persons health care, our yours.
            I have paid for my own health care, for life, take care of myself, and expect all other to do the same. I will not force others to, just expect them to, or deal with the consequences.

          • Every government on earth uses coercion to enforce the law. By your definition of totalitarian every country on earth is totalitarian, which is nonsense.

          • When governments act outside of their constituted authority, without the consent of the governed, they are using that coercion illegally, and it IS (by the Declaration of Independence) our responsibility to oppose it.
            Sorry for you if you disagree, I’m not much longer for this earth, you, and your children (if you can have any) will pay dearly for this unprecedented overreach of the government.

          • The election is the consent of the governed. It doesn’t disappear just because you don’t like the outcome.
            Sorry to hear about your demise, at least you can remember America the way it was rather than how our new country will be.

          • Do you realize how much of an impact that under-insured or uninsured people have on the cost of healthcare for the rest of us? I’d be much happier if there were simply a single payer system where everyone were offered tax-payer funded medical care for life, but this is what we got instead. A mandate to buy health insurance and make the corrupt insurance companies even richer. The silver lining is that more people will be covered and health care costs, ideally, should be reduced due to less need for indigent care, and the heightened availability of preventative medicine. Am I thrilled at how the ACA turned out, no, but at least it’s an attempt to restructure the health care system in America. The right seemed quite pleased to continue with business as usual.

      • You need to investigate the issue before you go spouting the half-truths and deliberately promulgated mis-perceptions that you are espousing.
        The Affordable Care Act mandates that ~all~ policies must provide not only birth control but also the “morning after pill” which is only effective ~after~ conception has been achieved. It doesn’t matter the gender, or the age of the person[s] covered, the law mandates that this coverage must be paid for even when there is no possibility of the insured ever needing the coverage for any reason.

        Reply

      • When you remove the free moral agency of a person or a business, you remove the cornerstone in the edifice of freedom or the keystone of a bridge to freedom. Choke on it!! Scientific literacy will tell you that the universe has design, ballance, incredible order, and moral unity. Religion, especially the Judeo-Christian religion, is the foundation of sanity, order in society and justice. People who argue against it are idiots!!

        Reply

        • Your Bronze Age myth has been disproven by modern science. There’s no evidence of a God and the bible as the literal word of God has been disproven.

          Reply

          • Blaa, Blaa, Blaa, Blaa. the fact that you live is proof god exists. a miracle considering what your mom looks like. Bronz age chastity belt?? didn’t work. was she a conservitive and didn’t abort you??

          • That you’re so fat and stupid is evidence that we descended from the apes rather than being created in some perfect gods image.

          • only blacks (and billy) descended from apes, but apes were created by god. first came Apes, God might have got it wrong as apes are a high order compared to you billy. Look what Websters got behind your name (“Billy” Ape retard)

          • Wow some racism mixed in with the disproven creationist drivel, you’re a special kind of moron.

          • AH, an ignorant racist cretan. I knew there was good reason to disregard anything you post.

          • Are you saying that Billy is god? If not, please explain why his existence validates the existence of a deity.

    • A reply would possibly serve to validate words of Mr. Bob who is seeking to antagonize and to get attention which he will not receive from me.

      Reply

  49. Will the Supreme Nazi Court finally declare that government is our Master and we must acquiesce to all its demands????

    Reply

  52. “it is not the responsibility of this court to protect the people from the consequences of their choices.” Good luck with THAT…! Roberts might have penned that noble notion, but that’s NOT how the Real World works…! SCOTUS will hear this appeal, and Obama will win. That’s been the strategy all along. They always need a tennis match. It’s the dialectic. Get used to it… 😉

    Reply

  54. that is why Obama has been trying so hard to stack the Courts and why the Republicans are right in the stopping them in Congress but it is also why the democrats are now doing away with the filibuster to support the Obama agenda

    Reply

  55. The kangaroo court has been stacked. The American sheeple had better figure out real quick that a communist revolution has finally succeeded after decades of planning. Either he is impeached, military coup or revolution will be required to save what little is left of this dying Republic – you can take that to the bank too as it will be worth much more than your worthless dollars will be very soon!

    Reply

  57. The Supremes have long welshed on determining definitively the meaning of the phrase “or the free exercise thereof” in the First Amendment religious “freedom” clause. Some “free exercise” if the right must be confined to private premises!
    PS: Mr. Minkoff, words ending in “ly” are not hyphenated.

    Reply

    • Yes, it is such a terrible thing to ask that you and people like the owners of Hobby Lobby, not impose your dogmatic beliefs on others. You are so oppressed. Your rights end where they begin to restrict the rights of others.

      Reply

        • Fetuses and zygotes are not babies, and frankly, as an extension of a woman’s body, they are her property. Life does not begin at conception as the sperm and egg are already alive. The joining of the two is simply a chemical reaction just like all life, and is therefore nothing more than a continuation of the same. If you have a problem with aborting a pregnancy, should should be similarly upset about menstruation or nocturnal emissions, as these two biological functions also halt the possibility of the continuation of life.

          Also, if you are playing on the emotions felt towards babies that could be born, please take a moment to consider the lives of the children of mothers who are already struggling to provide for their families. The days of large families being self sustaining and prosperous have passed. Each new mouth to feed potentially takes food out of the mouths of the others. Our species is quickly over populating our world and as we do, we are pushing other species into obscurity. Rampant neglect to provide sound family planning is causing poverty and despair around the planet. Through the use of contraceptives and abortion services, when needed, we can help to keep our numbers to a sustainable level and provide a level of quality of life for all of our people.We have the technology to feed and shelter our people and grow into a truly magnificent society, but we MUST take responsibility for our reproductive rate and learn to control our numbers. That is how we will honor life, by protecting the quality of life. We have plenty of people, now let’s do what we need to do to make everyone’s lives better.

          Reply

          • You are so articulate I almost believe what you write.

            First off, your claim that a fetus is not a living entity due the legal protection of the Constitution is simply a claim, something people on your side consider a fact.
            Menstruation and miscarriages are natural functions of the body to which we have no control.

            Secondly, there are legitimate ways to control the population growth. If the only time a woman had a baby was within the confines of a marriage, we wouldn’t have to worry about the population explosion.

            Thirdly, we have a responsibility to help the less fortunate live better, safer lives – I agree with you on that point. It should be done thru private organizations, not government organizations like the U.N.

            Side note: about your name… What is it in you that makes you “NotLeft”? You sound pretty left to me.

          • I think that fundamentally we are separated by the distinction of what it means to be a living thing and/or person. I’m assuming that you believe that we humans have a soul or other defining essence which survives our death and is separate from our brains. I believe that the dualism we experience within our own minds is created by the interaction of the separate parts of our brain. We experience a strong illusion of separation of mind and body, kind of like an equipment operator and the equipment he/she operates. I think we simply lack sufficient knowledge of the nature of consciousness to fully explain the phenomenon.

            I understand why people get so up in arms about abortion, I really do. The thought of killing babies is not palatable to any caring human being. Where we differ is that I do not see every pairing of male and female reproductive cells as a significant and sacred event. I don’t think that a “soul” is created in the process. I think that what make each of us who we are, is the experiences we face from birth to death. Stopping a pregnancy doesn’t “kill” a “soul”, it just stops cell replication.

            I guess, on a political scale, I’d have to be located somewhere left of center, but I’m not what I’d consider to be a leftist. I believe in personal responsibility, which includes supporting one’s self, but I do think it is in our best interest to provide for those who are less fortunate. I don’t think that everyone on welfare is a lazy good-for-nothing, but I also realize that some are. I’d like to see more oversight on it’s application. I firmly believe in the right to keep and bear arms, as this is the only way to ensure that the governed are not enslaved. I believe that we should have the liberty to pursue happiness as we see it, up to the point where our individuals wishes impose on the rights of others. <<<— That part is the defining point in not allowing controlling interests power over healthcare options which should be the sole decision of the individual seeking treatment.

            I think where we differ on the healthcare issue is that I feel that I work to earn my health insurance from my employer and you think it is a gift or that something that employers are now being forced to provide. For me, if I was not being offered insurance, I would demand more pay or seek employment elsewhere. The problem is that, for many, there is no option to just walk away from a paying job. Many people feel like they must take what they can get. It is very easy to say that anyone can rise above their current status, but it's not always that easy in practice.

            Ultimately, I don't see this as "X" religious business owner being forced to provide treatments and services they don't agree with ideologically. I see this as business owners attempting to force their employees to spend their paycheck in limited ways. Perhaps the solution to this issue would be to allow religious business owners the option to compensate their employees the difference as an actual pay increase so that employees can purchase the health insurance they feel they need. Nevertheless, we should still work towards making and keeping as many people healthy as we can, while keeping our population in check, as this will lower overall costs for us all.

          • While I don’t agree with several of your positions, I’m giving you an upvote, because you deliver such a clear explanation.

            You’re correct in pointing out our differences; a believer and a non-believer are at a stalemate on most points. But I’ll comment in a couple.

            Health insurance is, like everything else consumers purchase, a personal choice. It should not be government-mandated, forced upon us by Barack Obama. When you say changing jobs is too difficult for some people, so is paying extra tax dollars. If you become educated, it’s much easier finding a desirable job.
            I don’t look at health insurance as a gift; it is part of my salary. My coverage helped me choose where I wanted to work. In fact, I turned down a desirable job, because better benefits were offered elsewhere. It’s all part of that great system we live in called CAPITALISM.

          • I appreciate our discussion and on many points I think we will just have to agree to disagree, but I do have one last thing I’d like to say. While I agree that obtaining an education is most certainly the best pathway to better employment and leverage in the workplace, that task can be quite daunting for someone working to support a family at the same time. I know it can be done, but for many people it can be quite overwhelming. Would you support a social program that empowers struggling people to balance work, family, and school? If so, what limits would you put on the help provided? If not, do you have any suggestions for someone who is struggling just to pay the bills and feed their family, on how to include an education into their lives?

            The reason I ask is that, in my opinion, many conservatives take a hard line approach to self improvement and express the idea that those kinds of people just need to work harder. As someone who is currently working a full-time job and going to school at night, I feel privileged to have a wonderful family support structure to help me. I know many people who simply do not have it as good as I do, and I am by no means wealthy, or from a wealthy family.

            Oh yeah, I do believe in capitalism, but I feel that it should never be completely deregulated. Humans are flawed and many will take advantage if given free range.

          • Let me start by saying I wish all non-religious persons were so easy to talk to.

            When you asked if I would support a social program that empowers struggling people to balance their lives, many thoughts come to mind.

            The first being: does it involve the federal government?
            In my community, we offer many social services supported directly by the community. The federal government is not involved.

            Next, I’d want to know specifics about the social program. Is it retraining? Is it medical intervention? Is it job counseling?

            I’m an adult and I view my life as my responsibility. Like welfare I see most social programs as a last resort, a safety net for those who are at the last straw.

            It seems today, too many people feel they are at the last straw. Aside from unpreventable

          • You’re right, I think many people do rely on others much more than in the past. My personal opinion is that it is a side effect of parents providing much better lives for their children than they themselves had without teaching personal reliance. But that’s just some of them. Others are brought up in a system of poverty, and culture of welfare that doesn’t promote an ideology of self improvement. I know a kid whose mom said it is alright for him to quit school, because she knows that he is “not smart, just like her”. I can’t imagine my mother ever saying it is alright to quit school, or telling my sister or me that we’re dumb and it’s ok, but those people exist, and many much worse.

            I think that there is a psychological barrier that sometimes has to be broken through, before a person even begins to see their own self-worth.

            I think that perhaps I see the federal government in a different light than you. In my mind, it is us, all of us. I see it as our extended family, or community. It is not something to be afraid of or to be adversarial to. Just like how we can often have fundamental differences with distant relatives, so too can we disagree with members of our national community. Therefore, I don’t see their involvement as necessarily a bad thing. In certain cases, localized prejudices have caused communities to ignore or condone injustices. When this happens it is often very helpful for outside interests to step in and lend a helping hand.

  58. If the Supreme Court comes down on the “wrong-side” of this decision their loss of respect from the peoples will come to a complete and final point. Mr. John Roberts has already lost the respect of most Conservatives, a bad decision will cause the loss of all Christians and other faiths who still believe that the Constitution still has “worth and meaning”!

    Reply

  59. What’s next, will Hobby Lobby sue for the right to fire any employee who uses their paycheck to buy contraceptives or an abortion? That’s where this line of thought leads. You see, the employees of Hobby Lobby are entitled health insurance as part of their compensation for working. It’s not a hand out. It’s not a gift. It is a part of their pay. How they use that pay is their business. Hobby Lobby should have no say in what kinds of medical treatments it’s employees utilize through their healthcare. Another consequence of allowing this kind of nonsense to prevail is that once we have set a precedent for religious dogma to dictate what kind of medical treatment can be given to employees, we have opened the door to many other restrictions which could be requested by employers. A muslim employer may decide not to offer health insurance that includes heart valve replacements using swine valves. A scientologist employer may plead to be exempt from offering insurance that covers psychiatric care. A christian scientist employer may want to forgo offering medical insurance altogether. Where do we stop?

    Yeah, this all sounds great when you think that everything will always go your way, because, of course, everyone thinks just like you do, but when the shoe gets put on the other foot and you are the one that gets marginalized and crapped upon, think back to this moment when you argued to give others the right to deny you the medical treatments you deserve.

    LOL, it is just sad to see so many people post on sites like this one complaining about having their liberties taken away, only to realize that they are the ones proudly offering up liberty to be sacrificed in the name of their imaginary friend.

    Reply

    • NotRightNotLeft; That imaginary friend you speak of is real in some peoples minds, to me it sounds like your screen name should be “Non Believer” and that’s your right to your opinion but it doesn’t come close to mine or millions of other Christians, I assume Christian is a dirty word to you. You probably haven’t read the law very well. This Health law was flawed from the very beginning mainly because a lot of it is unconstitutional, I suppose you also don’t like the Constitution either.
      These words are yours not mine,

      What’s next, will Hobby Lobby
      sue for the right to fire any employee who uses their pay check to buy
      contraceptives or an abortion?

      What you say is a false premise everybody has a right to spend their pay to buy all the things you mention, but what

      your trying to suggest is that I and everybody else should pay for something they will never need especially men or some gays.
      Health care programs are not part of their wages it is a contract benefit, so adjust the program to satisfy those that want to buy
      contraceptives and abortion and the problem is solved, but Obamacare doesn’t do that it demands that everybody pay for something they are against yet are expected to pay for other peoples wishes, and that is only one part of Obamacare that is
      unconstitutional.
      What you should really do is keep your opinions to yourself because your sarcastic remark about an imaginary friend is bogus
      and out of line, I haven’t made a snide remark about your beliefs, so put a sock in it for your and everybody else’s sake.
      Have a nice day anyway.

      Reply

      • The healthcare law is constitutional according to the Supreme Court, whether your dumb ass agrees or not is irrelevant.

        Reply

        • More filthy brain dead ramblings from another extreme radical FASCIST pig left wingnut party of death demoncrat!

          Reply

          • You are so pathetic billy-0! You have no answers, and as typical for you extremist radical fascist left wingnuts who bow down and worship at the feet of your political god’s, especially your lord and master, your main god 0bama (you shall have no other gods before 0bama!), you engage only in ad hominem attacks, and less than middle school juvenile commentary. You appear to have the mentality, if there is a mentality there at all, of a two-year-old throwing a temper tantrum.

            I understand your sorrow, billy-0, your abject sorrow that all people do not march in 100% extreme radical FASCIST lkeft wingnut goosestep with everything you feel – not think(!) – they should believe.

          • Hahahahaha you are legitimately crazy. Nobody worships Obama and I have exactly zero Gods that I “worship”. It’s not the rest of the world that’s going mad Juan, it’s you.

          • Poor little billy-0! Poor child! Laughing his way to perdition! Of course you would deny that you worship at the feet of your lord and master, your god 0bama! Poor little billy-0, such an extreme radical fascist left wingnut and so confused he doesn’t know the truth about himself much less anybody else! Now run, don’t walk, the one you worship and adore so mightily is waiting to give you a pat on the head for being such a good purveyor of his lies, propaganda and disinformation! Your lord god 0bama may even give you a cookie for being such a good little child!

          • Why do you post these repetitive word salads over and over? Do these rants help you forget that the USA is changing at such a quick pace?

          • Why do you keep posting your childish and petulant extremist left-wing fascist garbage? Why do you keep posting your lies, your propaganda and your extremist left-wing fascist disinformation? Herr Goebbels would be proud of you! If he were alive today you would probably be his favorite little lapdog, and you would be so proud!

            Why do you keep repeating the phrase “word salad(s)” over and over again, ad nauseam? Is it because you really are as intellectually vapid as your comments show you to be? Is it because you really are a petulant little two-year-old mentally? Is it because you know you’re a fraud and a liar?

      • You are quite right, I am most definitely a non-believer. I do support the Constitution, however. Here’s the deal, though. I still have to purchase my own health insurance. The same applies for every working man and woman I know. Many of us purchase it through our employers. Nevertheless, our employers should not get to say what kind of health care we receive. If you believe in liberty, you have to believe in it enough to allow it for all people, not just those who agree with your own agenda.

        Reply

    • Oh, but NotRight, you’re not right in this case.

      Your ridiculous extension if the law is… ridiculous!
      Your line of thought would imply an employer owes an employee limitless benefits. Just because they pay for a portion of their health insurance does not necessarily mean its limitless.

      It is very difficult having a serious debate with someone when their set of values is so very different…

      Reply

      • What I’m trying to explain is that health benefits are not “given” to employees. They are earned as compensation for work. The reason for having employers offer health insurance benefits is because through group plans, we can access insurance for lower rates. Workplace health plans are also good for employers because a healthy work force takes fewer sick days and is capable of remaining productive for a larger portion of the year. It is in the best interest of the business to keep it’s work force healthy, and part of that includes reproductive health and family planning. More children means more time off of work for parents, not just for healthcare but for many other parenting tasks as well. It should be left up to the individual to decide how many children they wish to have, not the employer.

        It really kills me to see this issue being so misunderstood by so many people. Why do so many people think that their health benefits are not part of their pay? They are! If employers don’t want to use health benefits as part of workers compensation for labor, they should raise their pay rate.

        Reply

  60. I pray that this “forced act of the ACA” will be ruled in favor of the Hobby Lobby. I can not and will not tolerate a Government, such as this president, dictating what he wants and not the majority of the population wants. The teachings of God over man, not man over God!

    Reply

  61. Some people need to research Obamacare (the Affordable Care Act) more fully. If I were being forced to offer something that was a violation of my personal beliefs, my action would parallel Hobby Lobby’s.
    Birth control, which prevents pregnancies, can be obtained free or at a very low cost for low income people. Why can’t we expect people to be responsible for themselves and be proactive regarding the use of birth control? The ACA also mandates that employers through their employer provided insurance offer and pay for the morning after pill which is used to terminate a pregnancy. That is not birth control; that is abortion.
    I personally believe that our government is trying to micromanage the lives of our citizenry. We are capable of successfully managing our lives without the government’s interference. About 10% of the population before Obamacare was either not insured or was underinsured. They could have been offered assistance to receive healthcare. Those who already had healthcare which they were happy and satisfied with should not be forced to change their insurance, especially when, as evidenced by the rollout of Obamacare, they are being forced to pay for what they do not need or want and at a much higher premium.

    Reply

    • The government is not mandating that everyone utilize birth control and or abortion services. It is simply making them more available to the people who need them. The ones who want to micromanage everyone’s lives, are the individuals and organizations who are fighting for everyone else to be required to live by their personal standards.

      Reply

  62. We’ll see what side the court is on this time….can Obama threaten, intimidate or pay off enough justices this time??

    Reply

  64. The Constitution is a Contract between the States.

    The contract creates the federal government and places strict limits on the powers and authorities as well as spell out SPECIFICALLY what the required duties are.

    The People created the States, and ALL power rests with the People.

    The States can dissolve the federal government.

    So much for the ‘supremacy clause’.

    Reply

    • My pleasure. There are actually a few different types of communist but the most common are Marxist-Leninist. A communist will advocate for the removal of the influence of the capitalist class and in their place the workers controlling the means of production. A communist will usually advocate for a violent workers revolution to achieve this aim. Goods are to be distributed by need with the aim of creating a classless society where there is no private property.

      Misconceptions-
      -“Obama is a communist”
      Read the first paragraph again. Obama has never advocated any of that during his political career. Obama has also received substantial donations from private business just the same as the GOP during elections.

      -“Redistribution of wealth is communism!”
      Redistribution of wealth happens within every country on earth, this does not mean the entire world is “communist”. In what’s called “welfare state capitalism” wealth is redistributed within a capitalist market economy to provide a social safety net as capitalism cannot provide enough jobs for everyone.

      Reply

        • Well I don’t think anybody is going to “redistribute” your guns but unfortunately for you there isn’t a country on earth that won’t redistribute your wealth to some level.

          Reply

          • If you don’t think there are people who want to come in to private homes and confiscate private gun ownership, you’re out of touch with reality (their form of “redistribution”).

            Paying a minimum amount of tax to allow for the existence of a good national defense and safe infrastructure is not redistribution of wealth; it’s the cost of living in a safe society.

            Your claim of redistribution of wealth is just another name for socialism (or communism) and it certainly does not exist everywhere on Earth.

          • Confiscation is not redistribution, do you know what the word “distribute” means?
            Redistribution of wealth is not a communist principal at all, every country in the world redistributes wealth to some degree and if that’s your definition of communism I’ve got bad news for you; by your definition of communism every modern society that has ever worked has been communist.

          • The scariest thing is, Billy, that many of the people who are advocating for the implementation of unregulated capitalism are the very people who would be most hurt by the results. They’re spoon fed this idea that the richest among are genuinely interested in helping the poorest by creating jobs, if only they could be allowed to act freely. The truth of the matter is that they simply want be free to amass as much wealth as they can without accountability for unethical actions.

          • You’re a smartass, aren’t you!

            I read your previous post, so it was unnecessary for you to copy it. But thanks for your generosity.

            Billy, if you have something of value to say, say it.
            But don’t come sharing your knowledge of communism and expect we will bow to your arrogance. My bet is more people have a better understanding of socialism and communism on this site than you will ever have. You don’t sound extremely worldly or mature. I don’t mean that as an insult, just an observation.

          • As your ignorance has demonstrated; many of the people on this website don’t have the first clue what communism actually is. Unlike you I’ve said something of value, my last post had more academic value than all of your posts combined.
            That I don’t come across as “worldly” to someone as uneducated as yourself doesn’t matter, you can pretend I’m wrong if you like but we both know you can’t argue against any of the points I made.

          • Anne, I think a discourse with someone who obviously is so ‘all-knowing’ is futile. Those among us who are wise are aware that we will always have much to learn, and we will never in this life know all. Personally, I know of only One who knows all.

          • FightEvil,
            You are right. I learn quite a bit reading and sharing thoughts on this site and I don’t mind controversy, as long as it doesn’t get personal. I have a lot to learn.

            I appreciate your reminder of the only One who knows all. Thanks!

          • My pleasure. There are actually a few different types of communist but the most common are Marxist-Leninist. A communist will advocate for the removal of the influence of the capitalist class and in their place the workers controlling the means of production. A communist will usually advocate for a violent workers revolution to achieve this aim. Goods are to be distributed by need with the aim of creating a classless society where there is no private property.

            Misconceptions-
            -“Obama is a communist”
            Read the first paragraph again. Obama has never advocated any of that during his political career. Obama has also received substantial donations from private business just the same as the GOP during elections.

            -“Redistribution of wealth is communism!”
            Redistribution of wealth happens within every country on earth, this does not mean the entire world is “communist”. In what’s called “welfare state capitalism” wealth is redistributed within a capitalist market economy to provide a social safety net as capitalism cannot provide enough jobs for everyone. In a “social democracy” wealth is redistributed at a higher rate to ensure strong public services.

            “Socialism is the same as Communism”
            Although similar in some aspects, there are also key differences. Socialists will usually support a reformist approach where “democracy is the road to socialism”, rather than a communist revolution. A socialist society would also allow multi-party democracy, where as communist ideology demands a “domination of the proletariat” where one state party is supposed to act in the interests of all the proletariat.

            “Communists want to take away all the guns”
            Gun control is actually more of a moderate centre left- socialist position. Communists conversely believe in disarming the capitalist class but allowing and encouraging gun ownership among the proletariat.

    • Misconceptions on communism continued;

      “Socialism is the same as Communism”
      Although similar in some aspects, there are also key differences. Socialists will usually support a reformist approach where “democracy is the road to socialism”, rather than a communist revolution. A socialist society would also allow multi-party democracy, where as communist ideology demands a “domination of the proletariat” where one state party is supposed to act in the interests of all the proletariat.

      “Communists want to take away all the guns”
      Gun control is actually more of a moderate centre left- socialist position. Communists conversely believe in disarming the capitalist class but allowing and encouraging gun ownership among the proletariat.

      Reply

      • The main problem with communism is human nature. It is an evolutionary trait of human beings to seek to improve one’s survivability through acquisition of wealth(shelter, food, tools, possessions, etc.). People will always be motivated to improve their position in life and provide a better life for their offspring. This inevitably causes some individuals to have more than some others. True communism will forever evade the human race.

        P.S. Just wanted to add my perspective. I’m not trying to say that anyone is advocating for communism.

        Reply

  67. Ok Billy; Maybe I’m just upset Obamma appears to be attacking all the job creators(small business entrepreneurs); who employ most of the people here. And he appears to be increasing the number of Federal employees, which will bring about increased gov’t control and Central Planning – sounds like Communism to me?

    Reply

  70. “the boundaries and limitations of religious freedom are being tested”? Really, tested?? they aren’t being tested.. they are being trampled on!!! Islam gets a pass because health insurance is seen as gambling, and we Christians have to fund abortions, and contraception, just to name 2.. This is simply a WAR ON CHRISTIANITY WAGED BY AN ILLEGAL-ALIEN MUSLIM BORN IN KENYA..

    Each and every Christian should be fighting this, not just ranting on the web… get out an do something…

    Reply

  71. I don’t want to concentrate on one facet of Obamacare. I’d like to stay focused on the big picture. Am I wrong? Aren’t our elected officials supposed to represent the will of the people? The people may have voted Obama into office, but he is imposing his will on the people instead of representing the majority WHO DO NOT WANT ANY PART OF OBAMACARE. Two major issues have been huge frustrations to me. The first is that most members of both houses of Congress did not have adequate knowledge of the Affordable Care Act to validate an informed vote on the ACA. The second nuisance is that most of our citizenry (about 90% as I understand) had health insurance with which they were happy and satisfied, and those citizens (about 10%) who either had no insurance or inadequate insurance WHO WANTED insurance could have been assisted with their needs much more simply, efficiently, and at a far lesser cost than what we are now experiencing. I have to believe that Obamacare must be repealed because our elected Congressional representatives surely can do better than the present debacle.

    Reply

Leave a Reply