You’ve done it, I hope. You are driving down the road and you see a police car lying in wait to pull over unsuspecting drivers. So, after you have passed, you let traffic coming from the opposite direction know there is a police car ahead—by flashing your brights a couple of times.
A federal judge in Missouri, Henry Autrey, has ruled that this practice—warning other drivers of speed traps—is legal and protected by the First Amendment. The issue came up because a man (Michael Elli) in Ellisville, Missouri was pulled over and cited for flashing his lights to notify other drivers to slow down. He challenged the citation and even filed suit against the Ellisville Police Department. They dropped the charges against him (which could have resulted in a $1,000 fine), but they continued to fight Elli’s suit.
But Autrey ruled in Elli’s favor. His comments are refreshingly reasonable:
Autrey said in his ruling that the flashing of headlights was essentially a good thing, sending “a message to bring one’s driving in conformity with the law — whether it be by slowing down, turning on one’s own headlamps at dusk or in the rain, or proceeding with caution.”
Thank you. Because the point of speed traps and traffic light tickets is obviously to get people to drive more safely, right? Speed traps aren’t implemented merely to make revenue for the city, are they? Because if their sole purpose were just to make money for police departments, the police would probably be really annoyed if drivers were warning each other of the speed traps and voluntarily slowing down before they were caught speeding. Sarcasm.
This ruling also has some other implications. Flashing headlights is not the only way drivers warn one another of speed traps. There are apps for that now. For instance, Waze, allows drivers to post warnings if they see a police car on the side of the road. This warning, and the location and description of the police car, is updated in real time as members of the Waze community pass by. This is like the 21st century version of flashing your headlights.
When I was told about Waze, I wondered if the police warning feature would be challenged legally. It looks like this ruling sets a precedent to protect Waze and apps like it. Which is a good thing. I’m tired of the predatory police state, and these kinds of measures could effectively and practically rein in their capacity to do damage to the good taxpayers of this country.
OK, so you have waze running on your smart phone as you are driving? I am all for let other know when there is a speed trap or something other type of help. However, would it not be dangerous to be driving and using this app?
If it requires texting, absolutely. I am tired of being almost hit by the texting crowd and oblivious cell phone blabbers.
If I’m in a safe place, ie. red light, going slow, or in traffic, I blow my horn so they can’t hear what is being said to them! It should be that NO CELL would work inside of a car, truck, etc.
More government intrusion, huh? You may not like people using cell phones while driving, as I also don’t, but I don’t want the government telling me not to use it. Make thie fine a lot steeper if that’s why the accident happened. Accidents happened before cell phones were invented (1984). The circle of liberty keeps getting smaller and smaller with every law passed, every day.
I agree with you except the only problem is MOST people DON’T have the common sense to NOT use their cell phone in the car. (If it’s all that important,,,, pull over) I had one of the very first cell phones, and didn’t drive and talk! I PULLED OFF THE ROAD into a parking lot, or WAY off the road.
First cell/car phone I saw was in a friend fathers car. It was mounted to the car, not one you could walk around. And it was rotatory… so I do not know exactly how it worked. However, that was in 1978.
Yeah, that’s an old vacuum tube one from the 60’s. Mobile phones have been around since the late 40’s, but expensive. Cellphones took off and became the thing to have in 1984, when American companies made the cellular network available to everybody, with affordable phones. I used to install the car phones back in 1987-1989. I remember people gluing fake antenna whips on their rear window for the prestige. I had to ask some of them, ” Where do you want me to intsall the real one?”
One of the guys i used to work with installing phones told me that the first phone call from a cell in Chicago was from the parking lot of Soldier Field in 1984, and it was on a Motorola phone, which is in the Smithsonian.
I can’t confirm this.
The first call from soldier Field rings a bell. My father was an upper sales executive for Motorola Computers up until around 85 or 86. You tell that story brings things back into memory. Yes, my family is in the Chicago land area.
Yes, I live in the Chicago area, as well. I don’t do cell phones anymore. That was when I was in college.
I’ve heard there are devices that can jam cell phone communication devices but couldn’t find one cheap enough to afford. If I could, I sure would have one and would use it everywhere.
I agree, the problem is there are times where cell phones are needed. It’s just that MOST people are rude, and think they are all that and much more. My first cell was almost $5,000.00. It was used as a business tool. NOT for CHATING or texting.
No different than using a GPS to navigate, which the app essentially is.
Main difference you normally set your GPS while setting still and before you start your trip not while you are in motion.Big difference between that and texting.
Just to clarify how the app is used. If you prefer not to add info to the network, you can use it solely as a one-way resource and take advantage of what others have inputted. In that case it will just beep at you as you approach a speed trap. On the other hand if you would like to add a new speed trap that has not been added by others or verify an existing one, all you do is tap an icon on the user interface and you are done. Even in the latter instance it is nowhere near as distracting as texting. Keep in mind people who use this app will probably have their phones mounted for easy viewing and access. And it is not just for speed traps. It can also alert you to accidents, hazards, and traffic jams so you can alter your route accordingly.
Thanks for clarifying.Was not aware of that .Was thinking more along two way information.
What ?
Thank you Bayo, you are one in a million and I appreciate it.
Absolutely the correct question.
ANYONE who uses a hand held cell phone (and even many with bluetooth) is putting themselves AND OTHERS in danger. ANYONE who texts while driving … my personal opinion is … they should have that hand removed at the wrist.
I won’t ride with anyone who displays these activities. I have made cars stop and got out due to this. I personally don’t answer my phone or texts while driving. Everyone (that knows me) knows this. My cell phone lives in the back seat when I am driving.
Problem is if you cut off their hands they will still try and drive. 🙂 A real hands free system can run through your car… (for phone not for text), and you can answer the phone without taking your hands of the steering wheel. It is no different then talking to the person next to you as you drive. In this type case, I think its OK. However, if you have to look away from what you are doing, then I agree it is not safe.
Yeah but … I think it would be hard to continue to text.
Another pet peeve I have is the new electronic console things. I know its supposed to be convenient but I’ve watched cars wander all over the road while the driver is fumbling around with it … probably trying to change their music list … or something. It used to be that those types of items were against the law … and I’m not even sure that they aren’t still.
You can see some very scary stuff from the seat of a Semi Rig.
This case proves what we all know. All traffic citations are all about raising revenues. The blood sucking leeches can’t live within their budgets and want to be able to issue traffic citations and levy fines (hidden tax) against commuters.
Years ago, fines collected were not a budget line item for revenues. For the last 20-30 years they have been. The bean counters have a pretty good idea of how much they collect in fines each year, so they put that amount into the budget, then lean on the cops to attack the motoring public. I always found it funny that they almost never seem to catch the most aggressive drivers on the roads – the ones that cause the accidents. It’s all about the money and how to get it from us.
And we know police have ticket quotas because of our being nickeled and dimed to death by OUR EMPLOYEES! We really need to start electing good employees if we want to see a difference in spending, laws, and stupidity.
Yeah, and cops wives and family get just as many tickets as the rest of us do!!!! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!
Of course they don’t!
My son is a Fire Fighter he doesn’t get tickets if he happens to be pulled over. The city he works for insures the cop cars and the Fire Dept. as well. If they give a fire fighter a ticket their rates go up ! So they give them a warning.
And public officials don’t get preferential treatment, either. SMH…
lol , love it! you KNOW they dont get anything, IF they did, it would go into file 13 within seconds.
Must be a Republican Judge rather than one of the control freak wacko Lib Judges. Speed limits are deliberately set low in most areas to maximize revenue generation. Some of them were set before we had disc brakes! Instead of worrying about some cars going 10 – 20 over on the Interstates cops ought to be concentrating on those who are driving like idiots, blocking the left lane, failing to signal, running red lights, speeding in school zones, etc.
Yeah! I still believe in “Santi Clause” too!! (LOL) and: “we don’t have quotas!!!”
I have always honored our leo’s, however the leo’s of today are making it more and more difficult for me to do that. I assume by “we” you mean you are in law enforcement. The leo’s of today are treating the citizens as though we are guilty before a crime is even committed. We are beginning to not trust the slogan “to protect and serve”, because we who pay your salary seem to have become. the hunted, not the protected.
The supreme court has said the police are not there to protect you.Thats a fact.
I am aware that there is no Constitutional right that the cops must protect any of us as individual citizens. There is a big difference in having a Constitutional right to a service, and the fact that the cops are paid by the citizens, to protect and serve the citizens within their jurisdiction. Maybe a little firing is in order, because they have forgotten to whom they owe their jobs.
I agree and we shouldn’t stop there.We are the employers of the Government and its time for us to take charge and show them that the golden parachute that they think they have won’t help them when the plane doors open.
That’s right, they ruled that they ARE NOT there to protect. i remember that ruling well.
“To serve and protect” has become “To harass and ticket”.
Or, “to serve citations and protect our ass.”
My brother is a police officer. I’m not talking out of my ass. He himself believes that most traffic officers frequently violate policy and, in turn, the civil rights of drivers. Not all, and not a VAST majority, but more than half. Other times, the laws are such that traffic officers are going to get their way no matter how you answer their questions. Exercising your right to refuse a physical search of your vehicle only means that a K-9 unit will be called to search it from the exterior. That, or you can be detained until the officers get a warrant to search it. Exercising your constitutional right to remain silent, which the officer may have just read to you, can get you arrested. Often, the reason given for pulling a driver over is never the offense you end up being cited for.
Yes, traffic officers also frequently take impaired drivers off the road before they can do harm to others, and sometimes a routine traffic stop will result in an arrest for someone trafficking contraband of some sort, but just as often a traffic stop is a humiliating experience where the only thing that happens is that a driver is put through a series of commands meant only to establish authority. I always respect the authority of the badge and always do as I am told when stopped (which, thankfully, isn’t often), but I don’t always respect the officer wearing the badge on a personal level.
I think you are right. I think it is smart to be courteous to the officer. After all, when they pull you over, you are under arrest. In this day and age, with city budgets stretched to the point of near bankruptcy, the days of “just a warning” are all but gone. They are going to give you a citation. So smile!!! First you don’t say anything about your speed or what the speed limit was. They will use that against you. The only question I probably would answer is the, “where are you going?” question. I usually always say. “to work” or “restaurant.” This is a good one, though. When he hands you the citation, ask him, ‘”where do I go to get this taken care of.” You haven’t admitted “guilt” and you are not confrontational, but to the officer you just one of the sheeple out there that will roll over, pay their fine, and move on.
Ticket and more, and they WILL LIE THEIR AZZES OFF. I dont trust a cop AT ALL, I’d rather take my chances with the criminals
Back before the 60s, the average policeman was an officer and a gentleman. The hippies and marchers like the Clintons and Obamas called them pigs so often they began to believe they were. Like the saying goes, if you are going to get the name, you might as well get the game.
I think the Law Enforcement Officers, for the good of all including themselves, would be wise to return to those days of old by enlisting the help of the law abiding public they are supposed to serve. Turn the enemy into a friend as it was before. I really think that most Americans would welcome that move if it were sincere.
I agree with you 100% but, I just don’t see the new academy trained thugs changing their act any day soon. When we start recruiting decent human beings instead of allowing bullies to dominate the ranks things will happen for the better. Not Before.
Looks like we are on the same page. Good observation.
Yes they do.
You watch too many movies.
Tickets are just a form of tax money. And I have had Retired Officers tell me that they do have quotas and if you ask and they tell you the truth yes is what they will tell you. So don’t be blind.
Cariton, I wasn’t responding to you. I was responding to someone earlier preaching about torture who didn’t know crap about it.
my bag it was on my line sorry.
Apparently, he was appointed by George W. Bush. This judge has class.
Want to beat a speeding ticket? 99% of trials involve oral testimony (by the police officer) ONLY. Rules of evidence require ALL oral testimony to have some manner of relevant corroborative evidence that goes to prove the correctness and/or truthfulness of oral statements. Without corroboration supporting oral testimony (if that is all the evidence), you have reasonable doubt. A police uniform is NOT corroboration. Cops are human and subject to error. Their statements require the same scrutiny as any other citizen. Screw the “officer of the court” argument. Lawyers fall into that category too, and can you trust anything they say?
in court the cops word holds more weight than yours does, so you better have at least 2 other people to vouch for you.
First of all a defendant does not have to testify. Second, it does not have to be a question of whether the cop is lying, but whether his accusation and observation is accurate. How does the trier of fact eliminate or test for the possibility of error in a statement if there is no evidence proffered supporting the oral statement of only one person? Lastly, “in court the cops word holds more weight than yours,” I have never heard that actually stated in any court.
But it has been demonstrated in numerous courts more times than you can count.
Well it doesn’t surprise me that a cop can come off as a more credible witness than a defendant, knowing the general level of ignorance of their Rights guaranteed under the Constitution (which most courts will routinely circumvent) and the law (speeding law in this case). I live in Texas, and it is rare that the police even know what the basic speed law is. It is NOT JUST going faster than some number painted on a sign.
First of all, I got a ticket by a machine, where there used to be construction, but construction had stopped for awhile and there were no posted mileage signs. The only one was posted as 65 a few miles back. I was sent a ticket in the mail for going 65 in a 40 mile construction zone. Found out that the employee who posted the vehicle that took pictures said he saw the 40 mile hr sign 1/2 mile back, there was no way he could have gotten to that side of the freeway. There were no signs there for another week, when construction was resumed. I went to court and the man who represented the company was his word and company policy against mine. I wish I could have gone back and taken pictures of the area, but by the time I received the ticket in the mail it was too late. The judge said that the company policy and the representative weight heavier. I was pissed and said take me to jail I am not gonna pay the fine as it was wrong. Judge’s reply was well then when you go to registar your car or license you won’t be able to. Several years later the company was shut down for having defective radar and other things. So don’t try and tell me that the cop’s words doesn’t weigh more than yours. In a one to one you will always lose. So you matter well lie your ass off because it won’t matter if you tell the truth or not to the court.
“I wished I could have gone back and taken pictures …” indicates to me that you didn’t put much effort into a defense to refute their “evidence.” If you were ticketed in a construction zone and no workers were present, then get a statement from the foreman (you can depose them) of their work schedule. I’ll bet you didn’t do that? Did the “employee” present evidence that he was competent to operate the “speed camera?” Had the device been calibrated before and after you were cited, to ensure it was operating properly? I’ll bet you didn’t ask. Did they present evidence, or did you demand, showing that they had followed the manufactures maintenance schedule and that the “employee” was operating per manufactures instruction? I’ll bet you didn’t challenge that either. If the “employee” was way off to the side as you said, what about cosine error? I’ll bet you didn’t assert that either. All this and more goes to the credibility of the “employee” that “testified” against you. Even in Judge Judy, she always demands corroboration of oral statements in trial. So should you. If you don’t challenge it, it is presumed you have given you assent and they get away with it.
And being a cop requires you to be an accomplished lier.
AMEN TO THAT! A police CAPT lied her azz off in court against a family member of mine, when it was found out the state had NO CASE, The DA told her, she just shrugged her ignorant shoulders, they apparently started to investigate her cases ( she was in charge of the entire juvenile dept,) THEN she was made head of the juvenile jail, So what does that tell you, sounds like demotion to me when the B@$%^&$ SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED, CHARGED, FOUNG GUILTY, SERVED PRISON TIME. HER NAME IS BONNY COOK OF THE ST BERNARD PARISH POLICE DEPT IN LOUISIANA.
Sounds like a typical cop to me.
If the cop has radar evidence you’ll LOSE!
What sort of radar evidence was presented? All I have ever seen was the statement from the cop that he used radar that said you were going a particular speed. Did you ask the cop for proof that it was your car he actually clocked? Did you ask the cop for proof that the reading was exactly what he asserts. Did you ask the cop for proof that the radar unit was working per engineering and manufacturer specifications? I could go on and on, but you get the point I hope. You have to attack the evidence or lack thereof, or you will lose.
that is great if you are able to get a hold of the person in charge of the crew. City would not release that information. And it was not actually a cop that was in court, just a representative, all he said was that procedure was met, I could not prove that they didn’t, but I did prove that about 400 tickets were given that day in that same area within 3 hours. Obviously not 400 people are gonna speed with signs showing 40 mph. You could see yourself on a computer feed showing how fast you were going and also everyone else next to me was going the same speed. Don’t matter if you are right. Court has to do with who can spin the best yarn.
You can go to the site and ask for the person in charge or you can subpoena the city for the information. You have that right to compel them to give you the information you need to defend yourself. The city will say they can’t give that information sure, but if you use discovery properly you will get it or you can motion to dismiss. You have to be persistent. I’ve gotten two case thrown out myself. If was cited for speeding. The citation indicated radar, so I asked for the manufacturers instruction and operation manuals for the radar devices. First they said I was not entitled to that information then they said that they did not have the manuals. I got them to put that in writing, took it to the court, and got a dismissal, alleging that THEY could not prove that they operated the unit per manufacturers instructions. (It also pays to know what is in those manuals.) BTW it also pays to know the basic speed law of your state. In Texas, we have a presumed speed limit law, which says basically that you will drive a reasonable and prudent speed under the circumstances then existing. Guess what 99% of they officers fail to testify about? The conditions!!! How can the trier of fact rightly conclude you were speeding if the prosecution fails to introduce evidence concerning the “conditions”? There are also other elements involved too. Trust me, I don’t care what jurisdiction you are in, they will always make a mistake that will get you off.
The radar device doesn’t print out a record of speed and your car’s picture on it. You are still up against a lying bastard and its easier for the courts to scam you.
In any traffic court, it takes two civilian witnesses to equal the word of ONE cop. TWO. And that is the reality of it in any court with which I am familiar. And I was a cop for 28 years. The system is loaded against the driver, and it is made deliberately difficult to get out from under a ticket. Anyone who represents themselves has a fool for a lawyer. Any time that I saw anyone win in court, invariably they had an attorney. It ain’t right, but it is what it is.
In your 28 years as a police officer, how many defendants actually challenged the officer to present proof (evidence) to corroborate his oral testimony? In other words, what tangible evidence is presented to the trier of fact that eliminates the possibility of simple human error. I am not saying that the officer is lying, which is the basis of your argument. As a human being he is capable of error in any observation. That’s what I am talking about, prove you assertion. Criminal trials, which traffic violation fall under, demand proof beyond a reasonable doubt. If the officer cannot corroborate his statements, and that’s the only evidence against a defendant, there is your reasonable doubt if the defendant properly asserts it. If the defendant does not challenge the corroboration of court statements as to their sufficiency and accuracy, then they are presumed correct by the court. Am I right?
Although many libs are brain dead, some are good people. Making an assumption that only republican judges care about the constitutional rights of the people is a mistake. We should focus on right and wrong from any party. If you don’t know that both parties and the entire gov is corrupt then please get educated. What is frustrating is any and all corruption – no bid contracts, lies to gain public support, lies to get elected (read my lips no new taxes) and of course we have the #1 liar of all times in office right now.
The reality is Democrat appointed lib Judges are our biggest source of repeat offenders.
Earl Warren sort of blows that theory out of the water. What can be stated is that no judge nominated by a D has been any good, and the R’s have nominated the only good ones. That being said, none have even begun to overturn the myriad of unconstitutional over reaching laws already on the books.
Instead of protecting us from the abuses of the other two branches they seem to be in collaboration to expand the size of government.
And obviously it will get worse if Obama is allowed to make any more wacko appointments to the SC.
Can you site some verifiable sources for your statement about liberal judges? Or is that your assumption? I assume that judges from both parties are easy on crime. The revolving door keeps the attorneys, judges, and privatized prisons in business – and the taxpayer pays for it by a reduction in our standard of living.
Funny – when I posted this to FB I called the traffic cops revenue generators. Then I read your comment and saw where you made the same reference.
I have no problem with traffic cops who are keeping our roads safe from truly dangerous people behind the wheels of their vehicles, but speeding zones are arbitrary and sometimes nearly impossible to understand. One street in my hometown changes speed limits 4 times within 2 miles. Keeping up with the changes is maddening.
some of those were set even before the dodge brothers invented the hydraulic brakes.
The judge’s last name was Autrey – related to Gene Autrey? Anyway he ruled correctly – the government spending that money to go after that driver was ridiculous – cost them more than whatever fines they may have lost.
It is common courtesy, give your fellow citizen a break, flash your lights when you have passed through a speed trap, especially if the oncoming vehicle is obviously breaking the posted speed limit; what are good neighbors for?
@James,
LOL, I know right, I do it all the time. We have to stick together, you know us good neighbors!
Finally, a judge with common sense!
There’s one with common sense out of a long line of liberal idiots.
lol
How cool is that judge? He actually used common sense logic!
Yea, sure, the only reason speed traps are set up is to warn drivers to slow down and nothing to do with Police quota’s or City revenues!
Is the issue to slow down traffic to a safe speed or make money? It really depends on whether you’re in a Republican town or a Democrap city.
It’s nice though rare to run across a judge that hasn’t been purchased.
not yet, but they’re on to him now!!!
As long as we do not take our driving habits seriously we will continue to see tens of thousands slaughtered every year on our roads and countless other injured. I really don’t care if someone tries to warn me because I don’t speed, or tailgate, or run stops. Forty-six years with no tickets and very low insurance rates makes it worth it.
Congratulations on your driving record. Driving at or near the speed limit, being alert, not on the cell phone or texting, yielding to others when you see them in trouble or trying to change lanes and being courteous to others, keeps everyone safe on the road.
Well I have been driving for 37 years, careful, obey signs, don’t speed, stop at lights, AND a perfect driving record.
I take by driving habits very seriously, BUT it didn’t help me none when an 86 yr old man came out of no where and turned in front of me and drug my car all the way across two lanes and into a Lowe’s parking lot with my 3 month old baby in the car.
YOU never know what may happen, because it is so quick.
He needs to run for president! Good sense prevails.
The only other concern about the apps is that of using your cell phone while driving…there might be a law against texting or using your phone while driving.
Don’t worry folks this is just temporary. The 2015 cars will have a black box to record every last detail of your driving all under the “guise” of getting to the bottom of accident blame. But it also records speed, seat belt use etc. But then in 2017 obama wants to have the cars “talk to each other” so you can avoid accidents. We can’t even get people to use their pinky finger to flip a turn signal . If the cars talk to each other, they can record your fuel usage , and because you drive hard, maybe your gas will be allocated and your insurance rates will be determined by how your car “talks”. If it “talks”, can it “listen” to your conversations in the car? What about the first wreck where you slammed on your brakes because the car 3 places up spoke to your car because a person made a step off a curb?? Could your car be called in as a “witness” because you were in a certain radius of an accident?? This nightmare has no end . we have to stop this from becoming law. Just because we develop technology does not make it prudent to use it.
Not to worry folks, the “Control & Harass Cops” will simply move on to something else…..they have quotas, you know!
LOL, I love it because I warn drivers all the time when I see a cop sitting there. The cops are all camouflaged and driving unmarked cars, which to me is no better than entrapment, so if they don’t have to make themselves seen, then the drivers who see them first can make their presence known!
Happy like I just Sharted!
Traffic tickets are not there major focus of revenue these days, it’s the “War on Drugs” and the seizure of ALL property whether you inherited it or purchased it with drug money matters not, they seize everything and then the sell it and they get to keep the bulk of the monies from these seizures!!! Further, GOOD JOB on the Missouri Judge with some spirit of what America is really all about, combined with a big dose of common sense! The police just get pi**y about it because it spoils their quota’s for the month, and they may lie as much as they like, but most DO HAVE QUOTAS!!!!
Free speech. Absolutely. It trumps the municipalities deserve for revenue.
Actually, the flashers are performing a service, telling drivers to drive safely.
here’s a thought, every gov’t. local, county, state, and federal are in desperate need to raise revenues. Now, how can I prevent or slow down the the inevitable of higher taxes on my property, gas, income? Warning someone who is willfully breaking a well known and posted law is one sure way to get my taxes and permit fees raised. No apologies from me just plain sense better out of your pocket then my family and mine.
republican-democrat or independent, makes no difference. At least this judge used the grey matter between his ears and not the talking points that the supporters of this are spewing.
. . . “good taxpayers of this country” you say.
According to J. Peter Grace’s Report to President Ronald Wilson Reagan of January 12, 1984 says that:
” . . . 100% of all income tax collected is absorbed solely by interest on the public debt ( ‘good slave’ tribute to the Federal Reserve Bank Corporation) and federal government contributions to transfer payments (stealing).”
Public policy of public debt is public policy of public slavery. Involuntary servitude and stealing is forbidden both by our Constitution(s) and laws.
When, where and by whom was it determined and declared that I am an involuntary bankrupt?
and an indentured servant. thanks for posting this. Few people are aware of this fact.
Indeed well spoken; and “an indentured servant.”
You’re welcome RedMeatState.
I’ve pointed this out to several federal Judges and others in federal authority over the last three decades and to the best of my knowledge, information and belief to no avail.
There are towns on the eastern shore of Maryland and Delaware that have speed traps which represent their only revenue. When the speed limit suddenly goes from 45 to 25 within a few yards, that is a speed trap. The cops are behind the next bush. Flashing headlights to show where the cops are sitting is a natural reaction. The judges conclusion is good to remember.
Imagine that – an honest Federal Judge with common sense.
Lets see if the DOJ will show up and contest this one.
Actually happy for this. In our town they finally got rid of red light cameras as they had set the yellow to an impossible quick turn around where you could not possibly stop without getting a $50 ticket. Good riddance. Now they want to put radio transmitters in all cars that tell the powers that be exactly what we are doing while driving – that is a little scary! Guess the hackers will figure out how to defeat that! Drive safely now, no texting, no sexting and no drinking while driving.
Finally, a judge who understands and rules by the Constitution!!!!!
A right and reasonable judgement from a right and reasonable judge from what I see here. 3 flashes = speed trap ahead.
Wow A judge with common sense instead of a whacky activist serving an agenda in spite of law.
But how, exactly, do we explain a reasonable decision coming from a federal judge? I thought that was a thing of the past.
Wow…a judge using common sense. We could use a few more like that. I’m just curious if flashing lights to warn drivers is actually a statute that is citable?
Before being disabled out, it was explained to me be by my training officer when I first started out like this – he said, “when as an untriained civilian, you would see what . . . maybe five hard violations a day?” I nodded yes. “Now that you are trained, you probably see a lot more. Maybe 25 a day?” Again, I nodded yes. “Good then. Because if you can’t write at least one ticket a day, you aren’t doing the job the people are paying you to do.” With that, we went looking for speeders and drunks. Today, though, I doubt that philosophy in law enforcement. Once citation money started becoming part of the revenue baeline (it started about 20, 25 years ago in select, larger departments, but as of 10 years ago they all do it) all bets are off. Radar and laser detectors far into the same areas as the light flashing. If these things slow people the Hell down, then why not? They serve the same purpose as having police paint on a car – to tell you who we are, and to slow down. But with revenue streaming you can forget about that.
Could not possibly be one of those commie leftest judges looking out for his pension and Statism.
I do it all of the time. Always have and always will warn others of cops up ahead. Some times there are accidents etc. it’s nice to warn people to slow down.
I’ve been doing this for years. Most people understood and I could see them slow down…some even waved a thank you. Now? People are either too stupid or too preoccupied, so I love it when I see the bubble gums pop on and the cop nails ’em.
I like.
How are cities going to recover the lost revenue that they used to get from speeding tickets…???
Maybe they should reduce spending! Ever thought of that?
Wish I had that judge instead of the idiot I appeared before after being issued a speeding ticket (I was in a middle of a ten car line of traffic) that was illegally given to me. Only later did I find out that the damn town cop supposedly recorded my speed on his radar gun but someone later fought their ticket and found out his ‘radar gun’ had never been certified and he was pulling over anybody in order for the town to get money in fines. They did knock down the 8 miles an hour to 5 and only collected $25 instead of the $100 as long as I took the plea. What an idiot I was in listening to my husband who said I would be wasting my time.
If a mere 10% of the people who get “speeding” tickets would study the law and fight them in court, the system would collapse.
The law enforcement fraternity isn’t for the safety of the citizen, but rather for the power and ego of the enforcer. That, and the revenue. I have encountered reasonable officers of the law, but they are an endangered species. There’s something wrong with our body-politic. Terminal, I’m afraid.
#1 If you are using an “App” (WAZE?) to report a cop YOU are an irresponsible idiot. Why? Because YOU ARE USING YOUR PHONE TO TEXT!!! Stick to DRIVING … its safer for EVERYONE. (Unless you actually pull over and STOP to do it)
#2 As a long distance trucker I have had this conversation with people over the CB and a few other means. Warning of an obstruction to the smooth flow of traffic is a LIFESAVER. Whether you use a CB or flash your lights, you are warning of a problem. Yes, it’s a cop BUT people … even people who are going the speed limit … suddenly slow down, change lanes without warning, start acting erratically … in a car this might (might) not be a “big” deal but, in a 65+ foot long truck weighing up to 80,000 pounds ANY warning as to why people suddenly start doing inexplicable things without reason … saves LIVES.
The spokesmen for the police always say the purpose of speed traps is NOT to issue tickets, but to get people to slow down. If that is true, flashing your lights to warn oncoming traffic actually HELPS accomplish the stated purpose.
Apparently YOU can’t comprehend English. HOFFHACK stated “we don’t have quotas” is something he DOESN’T believe, just like “Santi Clause”. If you believe Tasers come CLOSE to torture, you have NEVER been hit with a Taser OR been tortured.
Many have died from tasers, I don’t think water boarding has killed any.
I have been water boarded and that doesn’t come close to torture. I have ,however been tortured and know the difference. Tasers come close to torture when they are repeated time and again.
I remember traveling with my husband.He got caught in a speed trap, only had to go about 10-20 miles out of our way to see the Justice of the Peace, at about 1-2 am. Just happened to be open. Not for profit.LOL
In NC no cities or counties recieve revenue from citations, that would be a conflict of interest. The state court gets the ridiculously high court cost, then the school system gets the fines which are generally low 5-50 dollars at the most. Quotas are not allowed by Chapter 20 motor vehicle law here but like any other job if I show 8 hours of preventive patrol I must have shown I prevented a collision by issuing citations or warnings. Yes 5.00 of each citation goes into LEO retirement system statewide for those who write tickets and those who don’t but preform other law enforcement duties.
I’ve always thought of it as my civic duty to warn others. If no stops are made, no tickets are written, with no tickets comes no ill will, with no ill will nasty comments are avoided. Everybody wins, the possible speeder checks himself, tree huggers love the reduction of paper used, your hard earned money stays in your pocket & the police are free to do their duty. Of course if the roads traveled are busy enough simply call a trucker ahead of you & they’ll fill you in, oops cats out of the bag now.
Hell yeah! About time a judge did something we can all be happy about.
Hallelujah! A judge that actually makes sense with his ruling! What a rarity!
In Louisiana at this moment, we are having a great problem with the speed cameras, which tend to photograph license plates in the dark and send fines out to owners of the autos, whether they were actually driving. In other words, the driver does not get the ticket, but rather the registered owner does. That alone is enough to challenge, but no one challenged, until a judge was issued a ticket and he had witnesses to prove his auto and he was actually hundreds of miles away when the photo was supposedly taken. The accused not able to confront his/her accuser is another problem with these cameras and photographs. There are other problems. Municipalities are installing these cameras for income generation, not to make the streets safer.
The worse enemy you will ever face in this life, is your own government. That truism I was taught by my father, and I have taught to my children and now my grandchildren is being proven every day.
All of these comments are based on the ASSUMPTION that the only occupant is the driver. We love to use the Waze app, but my husband drives while I use the app.
Sometimes there is a real justification for a ‘speed trap’ and
oftentimes that trap is only temporary. On the road that accesses where I
live, there are some roller coaster hills. As it is a residential area
the speed limit is set at 20. Now even I agree that 20 is really slow. I
find it hard to drag my feet through the floorboards of my car to go
that slow, so I usually go 25-30. It is a curvy road if I come in the
back way. But listen to this. On Christmas eve four teens, ages 15 and
16, both sexes, male driver, came over one of the humps closest to my
side street in a brand new Dodge Charger SE. He left the road, gouged
the new blacktop when he landed, then went airborne for another 40 feet,
left sideways skid marks as he went off the road and hit a long
brick/mortar and wood fence that fronts our housing development. He hit
it sideways and took down 4 big brick columns and most of the wooden
fence, tossing bricks bonded together in twos and threes over 100 feet
across the road and damaging a Miata. The Dodge ended up on its side,
all airbags deployed. The four kids suffered minor injuries. The driver,
in the police report which I have, stated that he was going 90! Under
Alabama law, he will not be allowed to drive until age 19. So the next
few days, our local police had a car sitting down at the other end where
the humps begin. I say good, and sometimes, like I have said, there is a
legitimate reason. Nuff said.
WOW!! a Constituional Judge………..
Its about time we have a Judge with a brain and not one that just has a political axe to grind against us for Osama the terrorist pig.
But, if you’re using your cell phone to post updates to the WAZE app while you’re driving, you are then endangering yourself and other drivers and breaking the law in most States.
They can’t tell us when to turn our lites on and off – where is our freedom going?????????????????
This article reminds me of a story I heard a few years ago about a man driving down the highway who spotted a patrol car off the side of the road with an officer inside using a radar gun. After passing the patrol car, this gentleman started flashing his headlights to warn oncoming traffic of the speed trap they were about to enter. Suddenly right behind him was that same patrol car all lit up and pulling him over. The first thing the officer said to the headlight flashing driver was “Who do you think you are? Paul Revere?”
Have a happy weekend everyone!
FINALLY!!! after thousands of UNJUST rulings against the Rights of We, the People,
a Federal Judge sees it correctly! We have and maintain, and hold forever, our Rights!
Now, this is the legacy of G.W.Bush, and we can only hope there are many more!
If you try to drive your vehicle a half hour after dawn, a half hour before dusk, or,
in rain, fog, sleet, snow, and your lights are not ON, I will be flashing my lights at you!!!
Also, since my horn doesn’t work, watch for hand signals! Yes, I will be changing out the “clockspring”, soon!
Meanwhile, I have also installed triple air horns, with their own large panic button…
,
Folks, kudos to this G.W. Bush appointee judge!
Florida passed the “Slow, in the Fast Lane” law in 2013!
Can get a nice fine ($85.00) for doing 10 below the limit, in the inside lane, on multi-lane roads.
My use of flashing my headlights is at dusk, I see so many vehicles without headlights on and they can see me, I have mine on but they may be behind or in the middle of oncoming vehicles with lights on, and no lights on a vehicle so they are even less noticeable. For safety’s sake, put your headlights on. I even drive with them on during the daytime as so many drivers are preoccupied with cellphones or some other distraction and maybe my lights may be what catches their attention, especially if a car is passing another and coming at me. Also, I momentarily put on my 4-ways if a car comes too close to me and the often drop back – mission accomplished and it is safer than putting on my brakes as I can maintain my speed but send a message. If they get too close again, I repeat and by then they should realize what I am saying….. “get off my bumper”!
WOW!!!! A judge who upholds his bench and JUDGES Rightly! All car owners/drivers need to encourage each other to slow down and NOT drive against the law! So why should helping each other be Illegal? People coming across the U.S.A. border w/out proper papers and legal, NOW that’s ILLEGAL! Concentrate on that!
Problem is: JUDGEMENT is NOT any longer according to the LAW: it’s according to what a Judge says or their political aganda! ALL Judges are required to JUDGE “Righteous Judgement” and NOT their Interpretations! But, they don’t! there lies the problem!
People also flash their headlights to warn of danger up the road. One time it probably saved me from an accident or worse.
Glad this was pointed out. Speed traps are there to increase revenues regardless of what the police departments say. Brother is a cop!
While we are on the subject of laws and the misapplication of them remember this. Anytime a government official tells you that they are doing it for the good of the people. Well they are ——————— sort of ———————— a very select group of people.
Seat belt laws———– instituted for the good of the people—————— yeah the people that own insurance companies.
By instituting seat belt laws heavily endorsed by insurance company lobby’s the public became responsible for paying for a law that reduces costs to insurance companies. Remember it’s your tax dollars that pay the police department salaries. You are paying the police so that they can work for the insurance companies to help keep their costs down.
The brilliant insurance company lobbyists got the cops to agree to this by telling them that there was money in it for them in the form of fines. Seat belt laws are an invasion of privacy without question. Am I saying they’re no good? No I am saying the explanations behind them are lies.
I ride! In Maine we have seat belt laws, and heavy fines for not wearing them. In Maine I can ride a motorcycle without a helmet. Which is more dangerous? No seatbelt or no helmet? Frankly I am happy that the helmet laws have been held at bay in many states, and I would like to see the seatbelt laws done away with as well. Personal choice and freedom is what made this country great!
So the next time you hear a public official say “its for the good of the people” start looking for the money trail.
One Marxist President does not make a Marxist State. There are many spoons stirring the pot to get America to that point.
Some of these posts are off topic, political and missing the point, but you have the unalienable right to do that, along with flashing your lights. What law or statute was broken? Cops can’t write an, “I don’t like what you did!” ticket. You’re not obstructing justice and are, in fact, warning people to comply with speed laws. You’re not impeding the officers performance of his duty, you’re helping him do less work…oh well, all tongue in cheek asside, a lot of police tactic is about collecting revenue just as the judge alluded to.
In Texas , driving on toll roads ( 2 lanes ) , speed is 85 MPH . Driving on the Frontage road , speed is 50 MPH . D.O.T. Rule .
Waze allows you to report whether or not the police are “hidden”, as well. You can even snap a picture of the speed trap and it will go along with your alert to other drivers. And you get extra points on your Waze account for each one you report. I suppose this is one of the daily felonies that every American does…
If the Leo’s would just ticket the pinheads who drive in the rain and snow, wipers on headlights off, the national deficit would be zero.
Well writing tickets has not lowered the fatality rates at all… those unfunded pensions need money from somewhere. Unions have their roots in communism.
In Massachusetts, they arrest you for interfering with a police operation. Tools.
That is bogus.
It seems to me that radar detectors should pass the same constitutional muster. After all, the detectors are meant to warn the operator of a vehicle that an officer is using a radar gun and the end result is that the driver slows down, thus conforming to the speed limit set for that area. If the perceived intent of a driver flashing his lights is to enhance safety among fellow drivers, would not detectors serve the same purpose, albeit (presumably) only for that particular driver?
Would be nothing wrong with flashing ones car lights at motorist violating the law, especially when the police are not in the area. Drive safely!
Tough call. Obviously a ticket costing some money might do a little more to
alter future behavior than a heads up from a fellow scoff-law. I’ve warned
people myself, but lately I just let them hit the wall. I’m particularly
annoyed by these people who whiz by in super size trucks – I’ve nicknamed them
“big truck speeders”. I guess if you can afford the truck, you can afford the
gas and you can afford the ticket. I’ve generally slowed down (now that I’ve
gotten older). The carnage on our highways continues, however, so as long as
speed laws are reasonable, I’m ok with enforcement. I’m opposed to speed traps,
even went to court over one, and I generally dislike entrapment (female cops
posing as prostitutes, getting their jollies off seducing men). I think we need
to expect reasonable conduct by both the police and the populace. Let the chips
fall where they may.