From the way most critics are talking about it, the Supreme Court ruling in favor of Hobby Lobby was a chauvinist attack on female reproductive rights by five old white Catholic men. I don’t think the Hobby Lobby ruling had much at all to do with women’s rights, however.
The main questions of the Hobby Lobby case were this:
- May a corporation exercise the same religious freedoms as an individual?
- If so, is a taxable (for-profit) corporation allowed to exempt itself from a unilateral mandate of the Affordable Care Act? In other words, how enforceable are the mandates of the Affordable Care Act?
We’ve never seen a case like this. Because the civil government has never before forced a company to pay for health insurance. And not just any health insurance, but full coverage health insurance as defined by the civil government. And the “Affordable” Care Act stipulates that “birth control” be entirely covered.
The main impasse in this conversation about birth control is that most conservatives believe an unborn baby to be a distinct person. Most leftists believe an unborn baby is just an extension of its mother’s body.
So, to a conservative, issues of birth control involve protecting the life of an innocent person, distinct from the mother, itself entitled to unique rights. To a leftist, birth control is just a sub-category of female reproductive health.
So you can see that the Hobby Lobby issue is quite clouded by this impasse. Whereas conservatives see it as a victory for those who do not want to fund the killing of innocents, leftists see the Hobby Lobby ruling as an intrusion into the private business of women—another prong in the imagined “conservative war on women.”
But in the end, the Hobby Lobby ruling had little to do with women’s rights or birth control. It had to do with how far the Supreme Court would allow the Affordable Care Act to dictate the previously voluntary decisions of a corporate employer concerning its employees. The civil government already sets a minimum wage. Why not just increase the minimum wage and encourage people to use the extra money to get insurance? Because that wouldn’t work.
Most uninsured people could probably afford healthcare if they actually planned and saved to pay for it. But they don’t. Because most people in the United States are short-term living, heavily indebted, hand-to-mouth spendthrifts. They use their tax refund as their only way to save larger lump sums for big purchases. They use Social Security because they won’t save for retirement. And now they’ll use ObamaCare because they refuse to be responsible for their own health.
So you’re right, leftists and feminists, your reproductive health isn’t and should never be Hobby Lobby’s business. It’s yours. So it stands to reason that, being your business, you should take care of it.
No one is forcing anyone to take contraception if they do not want to. It’s up to the individual employee to decide whether to take advantage of contraceptive coverage. So where is the burden on religious belief? The problem is we have a papal court in which ALL 5 justices that voted in favor of hobby lobby are catholic. They rely squarely on Catholic teaching about “complicity” to explain the supposed burden. According to the Church, it violates the moral obligations of a Catholic to do anything — anything that would “facilitate” the provision of contraception to an individual. So even if one is not using contraception oneself, if one facilitates access to contraception by others, a grave moral wrong has been committed.The implications of incorporating this doctrine into the Court’s interpretation of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act are staggering,. Presumably, employers who object to blood transfusions could refuse to provide such services to employees, Scientologist employers could refuse to provide for psychiatric care, and so forth, all on the grounds that doing so would facilitate immoral acts by others
We’re dealing with religious fanatics who are obsessed with controlling other people’s lives. The Koch brothers married themselves to the religious right but they (brothers) value $$$$ over churches. Liberals better get to the polls or the religious right will inflict more pain and suffering. The Koch brothers hate to lose and waste their money.
What pain and suffering are you referring to? Unlike Muslims who would happily behead you if you fail to follow their “prophet”, Christians will simply pray for your enlightenment and salvation.
You, our brethren of the left, are the ones who insist on controlling others’ lives. Nice projection there.
Christians have for the last 1700 years tried to
violently force, with every means possible, their bizarre beliefs upon everyone
else.
And you have the free will to accept or deny it, right ? But your hero in the WhiteHouse seems to think he has the power to mandate, bypass Congress, or use XO’s to pass laws or regs that only he and other communists want for the rest of the country ! Same thing you accuse Christians of doing, which they have NOT been doing, btw. Your muslim buddies also want to push sharia law and islam on the world, or haven’t you noticed ??
You can’t argue with a sick mind!
Show me that force will you troll! I’m Navspecwarcom, 13.5 yrs. and have never been to an engagement against Radical Christians! Now! STFU and go away back into your NYC sewer home troll!
Princess, do you actually think that anyone believes you’re a real combat vet?
Yeah, look at all those violent Christians out there right now.
Hey wind sock, what took you so long to form another lie? By the way, the Koch brothers are listed as 59th in political donations which is spread across all party lines, whereas, Actblue is listed as Number one with over $100+ million dollars going to exclusively democrat politicians. Hmmm, the Koch brother in the same time frame of 1989-2013 have only donated $18+ million, and yes, Hop Along Harry Reid also accepted a donation from them. But hey, don’t let government released facts get in your way. Might bring into question any credibility that your post MIGHT TRY to make. Want proof of my post? Look up political contributions in rank at the IRS site! Your own liberal government puts out the true damning evidence as public record!
Now go away troll, you have just been schooled!
Demand that your candidates reveal where all of their campaign money comes from.
You apparently do not care where Dems get theirs.
No one could possibly inflict more pain on this nation than Obama. Look at your own leftie billionaire crony capitalists jocksprocket.
This only applies to 40 companies that are structured the same way Hobby Lobby is. It’s not the whole nation and its businesses. Stop flying so far off the handle with your typical knee jerk reactions blinded by your present hatred.
As one stupid person once said (you) “Morality is subjective.” To each their own Bob.
It is the business of the individual employee to decide what, if any, birth control to utilize. It is not their business to demand that I help pay for it, or that their company pay for it. If a company wishes to include it as a benefit, that’s their business. Don’t like the company rules? Don’t apply to them for work.
I do have something of a problem with the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, though. It could be interpreted as rendering Muslims free to behead us Infidels at will, since that appears to be one of their sacraments.
(Is the tag necessary?)
What do you think of the news Eccelstone made about dropping Monza after 2016?
Dropping Monza will NEVER happen! It’s the “Holy Grail” of F1!
Ever read the First Amendment to the US Constitution ? Also, Hobby Lobby provides some birth control, but is against the abortion-causing drugs. The issue is should they have to pay for these drugs, and the Court wisely ruled in their favor, pure and simple. As always, feminazis and libs are shrieking hysterically that they are ‘denying woman’s reproductive “rights”, or “access to healthcare” ‘ – read the ruling ! !!
This whole thing is representative of way too much big government overreach, and why the hell is the government mandating all these birth control related items as ‘healthcare’ anyway ??? it’s NOT healthcare, so let them pay for their own abortions, or go to another company, if you think it’s your ‘right’ to have someone else pay for it !
Not Hobby Lobby’s business.
Hey butt head, don’t like what they offer? Work somewhere else! You do NOT OWN ME OR MY COMPANY! Take that to the bank a-hole!
SIMMER DOWN Princess! Take your meds & put your diapers back on before you piss yourself! Your mommy will let you back in your sandbox with your GI Joe dolls later today & you can go back to pretending you’re a real combat veteran.
Beating up on helpless employees is a conservative specialty. Apparently, the majority of customers at Hobby is women. Hopefully, most of them will stay away after they bombard the store with complaints, telephone calls and e-mails. Con$ervatives love something more than their religion – $$$$$$$.
Yeah hotpocket. They are so beat up on that their health plan only covers 16 of 20 birth control products now. Oh woe is me, the sky is falling on the poor souls. Women won’t stay away, because most women won’t buy your leftist lies.
You libs just enjoy forcing people to do things using the big boot of tyrannical government. It’s really funny watching the Clintons savage the Religious Freedom Restoration Act which Bill signed in to law.
Then using liberal logic (I know oxymoron) if a business cannot deny them their “right” to birth control they should also be prohibited from denying my right to carry a legally concealed weapon in their business as well.
You got that sheet right “Moriarty!” But you own a tank!
Is it true that the majority of Hobby Lobby’s customers are women? Oh, oh. It looks like the store bit the hand that made them (store) profitable. If the store’s business plunges then they’ll only have themselves to blame.
They still get 16 of the 20 contraceptives. Stop being so broad with your accusations when you don’t even know what took place. This mythical war on women mantra is getting old.
Hobby Lobby was not and still is not against providing coverage for contraceptives. They were and are opposed to being forced to pay for coverage for drugs that cause abortions.
Correction, Hobby Lobby paid for all contraceptives. What they objective to pay for are abortifacients.
Even so, what did we ever do before the ACA was passed. The way the Left talks, contraceptives and abortifacients were not available at a reasonable price before the ACA, which is TOTALLY bogus. And just why are we giving Planned Parenthood hundreds of millions of dollars per year?
It sounds like the Left, including woonsocket, believes that individuals are incapable of taking care of themselves and the government must do EVERYTHING for us. Perhaps that is true of the Left. I would rather be responsible for me and my own when it is certainly feasible for me to do so, such as buy our own contraceptives. Why should I expect someone else to pay for them, especially when it concerns a voluntary activity?
Seriously? Those women can’t take care of their own personal matters? What, are they stupid? Why don’t you start a charitable (=voluntary) organization that provides birth control to women who do not know how to find the bc aisle in their local pharmacy/Walmart/Target/Costco. Or to those entitled women who seem to think that their bc is the obligation of complete strangers.
Teach them the aspirin method. When you go to bed at night, place an aspirin between your knees, if it’s there in the morning, you’re good, if not, you’re effed!
When it doesn’t happen, are you going to go home and cry shockrocket? You just continue to lie. Why are you you a lying thug? Oh I forgot, that’s what libs do.
What does it matter tha most Hobby Lobby customers are women? HL is not being asked to provide contraceptives to their customers, just their employees. Besides, liberal-minded women with loose morals (who would be more likely to want contraceptives and access to abortion) usually don’t frequent craft stores anyway.
I am a conservative woman and if i could go and drop a large amount of dough at hobby lobby right now i absolutely would. I love that store and the fact that they stood up against abortion causing drugs.
“the “Affordable” Care Act stipulates that “birth control” be entirely covered”
It is my understanding that it isn’t the ACA that stipulates this. It was a degree by the Department of Health and Human Services. But I get your point and agree.
But this isn’t about “women’s health”. That is all a ruse by the Left. The Left tinkers with language such that if you are against their position, you are a terrible person who opposes something fundamental. This “women’s health” label is relatively recent. I noticed that not long after the Left started claiming that Republicans are trying to take away contraceptives (which is absolutely not true), the Left started labeling the issue as “women’s health”.
Does the Left have a committee somewhere that comes up with these labels? “Global warming” became “climate change” when it became apparent that the predictions of warming and Himalayan snow pack melting were not happening. Recently they changed it to “climate disruption”. They want it to sound more scary.
The Left must have some marketing group or some Madison Avenue group that comes up with these labels to make it easier to push their propaganda.
Killing the baby appears to be treated as a women’s “health” issue. Not too healthy for the kid, though. But it is the NOW Prime Sacrament.
The left wing liberals complain that birth control is none of Hobby Lobby’s business, except of course that the left wing liberals want Hobby Lobby to pay for it. Which, of course, makes it their business.
I have a right to own a gun, yet no one has suggested that my employer or that the govt. should purchase a gun for me.
Although once I was employed by an employer who did pay for my gun and my ammo. That’s when I was serving in the US Military in Vietnam.
If left wing liberal logic was taken to its logical conclusion, all members of the TEA Party should expect the Left Wing Liberals to pay for our guns, our ammo and our range time, so we can practice to become better shots.
I like your train of thought! Welcome home bro. 71-73, 82-88, 91-95,00-05!
PA and Combat – thank you for your years of service to this country. I want my tax dollars to pay for your care and not some fluke’s birth control so she can screw around and whine. What a shame what the commander-in-cheat has done to our once grand military. But know that your sacrifice will always be remembered by this Air Force brat! Thanks to you I show my colors every day of the week!!
shillary came out and said contraception is expensive. Right, 9 bucks a month will buy your pills and if they don’t work, keep your legs crossed. Seems reasonable to me. And what does mega-millionaire shillary know about expensive? Glad to hear her latest book is bombing.
WOW, that actually sounds like a stellar idea! 😉
BTW, thank you for your service (and yes, it is meant from the heart).
In any case, if Hobby Lobby pays for something (is forced to pay for something), it very much becomes their business…and Hobby Lobby doesn’t feel like explaining to their God why they’re killing babies…..preventing them is one thing, killing them is a horse of a different color.
Hobby Lobby has $75 MILLION invested in (& profit from) the company that makes the drug that claim is against their religious beliefs! Like ALL religious beliefs they end where the all mighty dollar begins!
PROOF…
Oh, good grief, socialist, knock it off!!!
PROOF? By the way AZ Bob! You are nothing but a very incompetent troll!
It’s no secret that hobby lobby has $75 million invested in the company that makes the “abortion pill” to anyone but you no information voters of the tea party
PROOF?
Name that company and proof of Hobby’s investment. I won’t hold my breath waiting for the answer.
Why should ANYONE be forced to lay for someone else’s contraception? Shouldn’t that be the responsibility of the woman and perhaps her partner/s? I really don’t want it to be any of my business but if I’m paying for it aren’t you making it my business! Come on, ladies. Get some dignity. This isn’t the feminism I fought for way back when. Seriously, you want to force strange men, women and everything in between to pay for YOUR bc and you think it is some sort of RIGHT? If you can’t afford $9 per month for bc pills or to make your partner/s use condoms then perhaps you are not mature or responsible enough to have a job or be sexually active and engage in behavior that is scientifically proven (“settled science”) to create life that apparently you do not want. I have two sons. Why drag them into your personal life? Are you serious that they should pay for your bc? Sad and embarrassing and undignified.
Would you rather pay the welfare and free medclal for life? My tax dollars subsidize a whole bundh of children even those of working families. It would be cheaper for my tax dollars to pay for birth control. Those who don’t like birth control for anyone, won’t pay to support all the population growth that they desire.
Typical response. If you don’t pay for my problem, then when my problem gets larger I will expect you to pay more for it.
What is that? A terrorist demand? It’s sick thinking that people are entitled to others paying for them and their children. Well, by that token why don’t you demand that I subsidize euthanasia otherwise I’ll have to pay more for your grandparents nursing home care.
You know what, it is their d**n responsibility. Start expecting people to be responsible rather than having others enable.
Americans are not responsible. So you want them to reproduce millions more? Since Ipay taxes for the 47% i’d like my money to fund birth control. Now if they would onl;y use it. I have no problem with those who don.t like birth control, but they will not pay the taxes to fund all the welfare and free medical that their beliefs will require.
How can you totally say, “Americans are not responsible?” You can only speak for yourself. Now go away before I really crush you with facts and reality about Americans!
You are way off base.
How about you and I keep more of our property and wages and live a life of charity by giving some of our money to causes we deem worthy. If you seriously believe that there are women who do not have access to bc (and when you are doling out your own hard-earned money rather than someone else’s, you might be checking on their claims of poverty and hardship a little more closely) then by all means, give freely! I won’t stop you. Promise.
That is your preference. A better idea would be to force able-bodied people to support their own children and stop having other people pay for them!
Never happen. We reward welfare mothers the second they get pregnant with an increased check. Politicians like the votes this buys. And can you imagine the outcry if you cut them off after they were on the welfare rolls?
We reward welfare mothers the second they get pregnant with an increased check.
Therein lies the solution. STOP rewarding bad behavior. I don’t have to imagine the outcry if we stop. I only have to agree to live with it.
It may be cheaper, but it would certainly CHEAPEN everyone concerned. Killing an innocent life before it gets to take a single breath? How cruel can “free” Americans be?
How about we all work to make sure that every pregnancy is a wanted pregnancy. Not try to restrict reproductive choices for women. That would be better for all.
I’m all for trying to make every pregnancy into a wanted pregnancy. Of course there is no way to do that that I can see. Too many women want to live loosely and without responsibilities tied to that loose life. I truly don’t know how to get around that. Perhaps you have some ideas.
Nobody wants to “restrict” anything. We want YOU to restrict yourself. Should my sons pay for some random woman’s b/c when they don’t get any of the action? Honestly, how degrading for a woman to sleep with a man who won’t even put up a few bucks for a condom or bc? Yet you want to make ME responsible? Lol!
We all agree with reducing unwanted pregnancies. Correction: YOU have been arguing the opposite in this thread.
But you are a liberal, and you already have a solution, it’s called MASS MURDER, oh wait, it’s abortion!
Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
By the way, keep your damned legs closed and NO Pregnancy!
Sorry I am 67 year old Goldwater Libertarian male.You want to pay the welfare and free medical. Let’s work to make sure that every pregnancy is a wanted one.
The biological parents may not want that baby, but there are people waiting to adopt her/him.
If we want to stop or reduce “unwanted” pregnancies, teach the children that pre-marital sex is wrong, it is not natural, and since they are not animals, they can control their sexual urges.
Sorry to inform you but people have sex because it feels good. Not every time do they want an offspring. As for adopting, everyone wants a blue eyed blondhaired’Perfect” child. Ther are millions of mixed race and kids with handicaps going begging for homes.
Not true at all. Just try to adopt a child today. There is plenty of money to be made as a guardian of an “unwanted” child. Most people have to go to a foreign country to adopt and a white person attempting to adopt a child of color is blocked by “people of color” who claim we are robbing them of their heritage and only “people of color” should adopt a child “of color” THAT is a fact. My brother and I tried years ago. We both have kids but there is always room for one more. Not to be, since we were the “wrong” color. So who lost out?
The “perfect” white kids are at a premium. Others with mental, physical defects, or children of mothers who are addicts are all over and available. Of course if you want a “white, blond hair blue eyed” infnct a private adoption will get you one but it will be expensive.
Did you even read Truth…’s comment?
Yes and I stand behind my reply
NO you didn’t actually read Truth;s comment.. Lying about it when called out doesn’t convince anyone.
It’s nice that you figured out that people have sex because it feels good. Did you also figure out, that young people are being taught and rewarded for “if it feels good, do it”?
Taxpayers are stuck paying millions because irresponsible people won’t abstain from sex, because it feels good.
I would have happily adopted a child of any color, but couldn’t because I had some kids.
You are one of the few who is willing to step up and help with the unlimited population growth that the anti birth control people want so badly. I applaud you you are one of the few.
Of course if we have to pay for the unlimited welfarekids why won’t we pay for their birth control?
Hobby Lobby isn’t refusing to pay for birth control. It is refusing to pay for abortifacients, drugs and the IUD which prevent the egg from implanting in the uterine wall.
Why do we HAVE to pay for the welfare kids? Wouldn’t the solution be to stop paying the welfare kids’ parents for not working or having more kids than they can support?
Exactly. I told my kids that drugs make you feel so good. That’s why people are attracted to them. But at that time we were watching a moth irresistibly fly closer and closer to the flame of the candle on our table. Eventually it flew too close and burned to death. That was their lesson about sex, drugs and other temptations.
Spoken like a true Eugenicist. Margaret Sanger would be so proud…
I had to read Margaret Sanger in college (puke).
Here is a gem of hers . . . directed toward Negros.
What Every Boy and Girl Should Know-1915
“It is a vicious cycle; Ignorance breeds poverty and poverty breeds ignorance. There is only one cure for both, and that is to stop breeding these things. Stop bringing to birth children whose inheritance cannot be one of health or intelligence. Stop bringing into the world children whose parents cannot provide for them.”
Eugenics for sure, but only if they are like her!
Thanks for that. Wonder if the pro-abort groups know any of this. I think not.but can’t deny she was successful.
Sent from my iPad
No, everyone does not want a blue-eyed blonde-haired perfect child. There are some people who adopt kids with disabilities, specifically. There are some people who adopt children of color. Haven’t you heard of that story of the black woman who adopted out her daughter to a white family when her husband was in the military? It was all over the news. The adoptive couple had another black child as well. Bang goes that theory, Dodie.
Thre are plenty of childrren with difficulties that are hard or ompossible to place. Just ask. Lots of children born of drug addicted mothers.
Sorry, you are NOT a Libertarian if you want MY property to fund YOUR hobbies.
…and at 67y/o, you should be smarter than you are, what happened?? If ya want it, PAY for it, plain and simple, but don’t try to make ME pay for it. Why don’t you just raise your kids right, then you don’t have to worry. It worked for me, my parents, and grandparents.
Hobby Lobby does pay for birth control. It objects to paying for paying for drugs that cause the child to be aborted. LBJ did this nation a huge disservice when he started the “Great Society”. Instead of a better nation, immorality, hedonism, ignorance, and selfishness have dramatically increased.
Seems like we’re already paying for welfare, food stamps, obama phones, bus passes so no, I don’t want to pay anymore for welfare maidens to lay around, drink beer and smoke dope with her homeys and who would probably forget to take her pills anyway. Unless of course the pills are oxycontin. You want to adopt-a-baby maker and pay for her pills, knock yourself out.
So you are aware that as soonas they are pregnant you and I pay for another welfare kid. You are okay with that ? You and I are already paying plenty birth control is cheaper.
No, I’m not okay with it but I’m already paying for my share of welfare brats. And illegals that come in here by the trainload. I would rather pay to have these breeder rats “fixed”. Then they call ball away the day and night and their only worry is AIDS. Next you’ll want me to buy their AIDS meds.
Preciseyt since I am paying to support the breeder rats lets get them birth control or free sterilization. At least cut off the welfare for more that they keep breeding.
Don’t punish the child by murdering him in utero.
Birth control might prevent the unwanted pregnancy
The issue with Hobby Lobby has nothing to do with birth control It is about using drugs or an IUD to abort the fertilized egg.
Yes it would. So would abstinence. But that requires personal responsibility. And after all, if they do have the child someone is also responsible. It is called moral hazard.
Restraint would prevent the unwanted pregnancy better. Birth control is not 100% effective. Abstinence is.
Abstinence doesn’t work. People have sex because it feels good. Not everyone has sex only with the intention to procreate. I read somewhere that at least 50% of pregnancies were unplanned. Everyone should work to insure that every pregnancy is a weanted one.
Abstinence is actually 100% effective. It has NEVER failed to prevent pregnancy AND STDs EVERY time it is practiced. Forcing people to pay for the consequences of THEIR OWN actions is the ONLY way to change their behavior.
They get pregnant because they want to. BC is cheap and available everywhere. No, we must have a culture of self respect and personal responsibility. Your “choices” do NOT become my obligations…at least with adults.
So why don’t we just stop paying for these welfare moms? Why don’t we make them work and pay for their own irresponsible behavior? Perhaps they will be more responsible if they would have to pay for their own children!
Paying rich farmers millions or billions in corporate welfare no problem, paying a mother a couple hundred $ to feed her child drives Christians absolutely crazy!
No bobby sweet, you’re what drives ME crazy. E.S.A.D.
IF they KNEW there was NO FREE WELFARE $$$$$$ coming then in a very SHORT period of time the pants might stay on until marriage.
Give a date for ALL to stop and watch the birth rate go down
Doubtful, People have sex becuase it feels good, not just to reproduce as some would have it. If they did not get rewarded for it with welfare, they might go down, but that will never happen. Don’t forget every welfare kid a new Democrat voter. If that isn’t an argument for birth control what is?
you got a point…maybe we should offer free sterilization and a $500.00 check with it.
Roe INCREASED out of wedlock children AND abortion. Sorry. The numbers just don’t add up because the laws support bad, reckless and irresponsible behavior. BC is available and cheap.
Check the stats before the Great Society program was expanded. You’ll find an interesting statistic there.
Nobody is stopping you from donating money for birth control or donating the bc to those you believe are deserving. What I resent is your “volunteering” MY property. Do you see the difference?
Figures you would quote bad law in order to justify a hope for bad law decisions.
How about we don’t pay for the welfare and free medical care of these people? That would fix the problem, but then of course, “liberals” would never think of that. In a free country, we wouldn’t be forced to pay welfare and free medical care for able-bodied people!
In a free country, no one would be forced to pay for anyone else’s medical care. I doubt there is any such free country in the world. More’s the pity.
I know it’s a typo, but your first sentence is a classic. 🙂
OMG, yes it is! Freudian slip, perhaps. Lol!
Sent from my iPad
Because Healthcare is not a right, and Birth Control is not a right. Both are items you can take care of on your own and your employer should have nothing to do with them. If an employer should want to include healthcare coverage they should merely allocate the amount You can spend and then have you get your own coverage and they just pay for whatever you have chosen within their budget of benefits. You leave that job you keep the insurance but you pay for it. Maybe your next employer will give you some money for it???? Hobby Lobby is right!
That is correct, birth control is not Hobby Lobby’s business therefore that company should not be forced to pay for it.
NONE OF US should have to pay for it!!!!
by “NONE OF US should have to pay for it!!!!” do you mean that the person _using_ birth control should receive it for nothing?
WRONG!
Birth control not a _right_. It is a product or service that needs to be purchased by the user.
If the person cannot or will not pay for artificial means of birth control then that person must either abstain from having sexual relations or face the consequences thereof.
No, that is absolutely NOT what I mean. What I mean is that none of us should be paying for someone else’s roll in the hay. None of us should be REQUIRED to pay for anyone else’s health insurance, home, medical expenses, trips, education, etc. What I mean is that everyone should be taking care of himself. There IS NO CHARITY when others are forced to pay for someone else. THAT IS WHAT I MEAN.
Thanks for clearing your position for me. It would seem that we are in full agreement on this issue.
Unless a woman is literally having sex with their employer then their employer should not have to cover prevention or abortions. Women’s rights were not infringed here, every woman can still do exactly the same things they were legally allowed to do before June 30th. When SCOTUS finally overturns Roe the destruction will be monumental — but worth it.
The SCOTUS will NEVER overturn Roe v Wade.
Get back to me after it happens.
Corrupt SCOTUS decision like Jim Crow get overturned.
By the way, which Troll outfit pays you for posting?
You morons have been waiting 2,000 years for jesus to return so I suppose you can wait another 1,960 years for the court to overrule Roe V Wade. Just don’t hold your breath
Please, hold yours so sane people can reap the rewards of unadulterated O2!
What a fool you are. You don’t know what religion, if any, that I might aspire to. But your atheism oozes from your mindless rants. You live in constant fear — maybe Jesus can help. Every atheist screeches about Christianity and has little to say about other religions or perceived societal myths. I’m still waiting for Santa to show up, why don’t you attack that belief — or the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny or Wizard of Oz? Simple, its reality that haunts you not the fairy-tales.
Like they would never rule in favor of the Hobby Lobby case ?
The Hobby Lobby case was no surprise. We have 5 justices on the supreme court that take their orders from the pope. Making laws up is one thing overturning a precedent is another.
Wah wah wah!!!
You are just another freaked-out, shrieking lib buffoon, like all the others – – and I bet you were surprised by it – –
So its the Pope or your messiah in the white house? Fairly limited thinking on your part.
What laws were made up? Do you mean ObamaCare? Have you even read the Constitution of the USA? Does the Constitution even matter to people like you? Have you seriously wondered about the post Constitutional oligarchy that will control your thoughts and actions? Who sent you here to Troll? Who’s paying you?
The law that corporations have religious rights!
You make inflammatory comments like that and you deserve ever “cheap shot” you get…
Jessica, even a Catholic should question the logic of having 6 Catholics sitting on the Supreme Court
There was a case some time ago that Justice Sonia Sotomayer recused herself from due to a conflict of interest.
Justice Kagen should recuse herself from all ObamaCare related cases for the same reason — conflict of interest.
Soto is a catholic. What were you saying Einstein? Oops! That’s the OTHER nut
More of your idiocy.
NEVER…
Now that we have the final word from God, I guess we can forget about any appeal to Roe v Wade…
I didn’t realize LABob… was God.
Sorry.. I forgot to write SARC OFF…
Oops! Me too.
I got it Sis. Good one.
Freudian slip? 😛
That you’re God or to forget R v W?
That I’m god!
Well, I’d bet the chances of jesus returning are better then Roe V Wade being overturned in the next 50 years & I’m an Atheist!
Based on your short response there’s an 85% chance you are an atheist and a 73% chance you are homosexual and a 98.3% chance you are bound for hell – which of course you don’t believe exists. We all die, then you’ll know.
bases on your response there’s 100% chance that you’re a self loathing uneducated Christian & closet homosexual living in some southern sewer leading the anti gay parade.
Wow your good!!! Is that sewer in NYC or LA-Bob? Based on you overreaction it seems I struck a nerve… are you homophobic Bob? Or suffering gender confusion? Or did the syphilis finally reach your brain? I feel sorry for you Bob, I don’t why unless its because my latent Christianity is leaking out.
PS: I don’t need to be self loathing — I’ve got you.
Can you imagine how many conservative guys will accidentally get their mistresses knocked up? Maybe they’ll send their mistress a set of wire hangers.
Real men protect life. Real men provide for their children. Real men don’t kill their kids because they’re inconvenient. Men and women (not gays) have been reproducing for thousands of years before wire hangers existed. Its a new and twisted world when selfish men destroy their progeny.
You joke about wire hangers but I doubt you’ve ever watched a sonogram of an actual abortion as a terrified child is ripped to pieces by a vacuum device or burned to death with chemicals or one where the mother dies along with her baby. Hangers never caused anything close to the abortion clinics 3,768 American deaths per day. Just go right on living in your tiny little self-righteous fantasy realm.
Like Joe Walsh, a conservative deadbeat dad?
Dumb response!!! You avoided my question.
Have you ever watched a sonogram of an actual abortion as a terrified child is
ripped to pieces by a vacuum device or burned to death with chemicals or
one where the mother dies along with her baby? Later woo.
More of your idiocy to go along with MrMalibuBarbieLABobEfromNYC. You just make s__t up and think you are being prfound.
This isn’t about women’s rights re: abortion/birth control. That was decided long ago. This is supposedly a ‘health’ issue. And companies, in addition to being forced to provide healthcare, are being forced to provide that which the government deems proper. Fanatics on the left seem to think that others should pay for their birth control. i.e., birth prevention. In other words, pay for another’s sexual choices vs. having the individual(s) pay for it.
By the loose definition of ‘health’, isn’t food a health issue? Why do we require people to pay for their own food? Why don’t we demand that insurance cover that too?
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Effectively, this is the left imposing its values thinks on others. Anyone who would object will be labeled a fanatic. The irony is that one who dictates that others follow them is a fanatic. Effectively, the left through the tool of the state is deciding more and more what is proper and acceptable.
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The irony is that the left demands that everyone else provides the tools relative to their ‘sexual needs’ aka birth prevention. Yet, then they say what I do is my business. Can’t have it both ways, you can’t go about demanding others subsidize your bedroom needs and then decide what happens in there is not anyone’s business. That’s like expecting someone to loan you money, but refusing to tell them why. I am not interested in what happens in the bedroom of others and I don’t want to be forced to pay for their bedroom activity.
Bandaids are a health need when someone gets injured, should we have health insurance cover that? Shampoo and soap are health needs, should we have others cover that?
When does personal responsibility come in? You want unlimited rights, but NO responsibility. Doesn’t work that way.
I don’t care what happens in your bedroom, but demanding that someone else pay for it is obscene. Especially, when it goes against their conscience.
The left expects others to be tolerant of they believe is right. Yet, they aren’t willing to extend that tolerance for others. It’s a matter of common decency. The left doesn’t own the citizenry.
They don’t own the right to dictate to others whether they smoke or not.
They don’t own the right to decide how others are allowed to protect themselves.
They don’t own the right to tell others what to eat or drink.
They don’t own the right to raise other people’s children.
They don’t own the right to tell others what they can think.
They don’t own the right to tell others what healthcare choices they should make.
They don’t own the right to tell others what kind of car they can drive.
It’s about control. It’s ironic, they have portrayed in movies such as Footloose of a rightwing town that’s fanatical and intolerant. Yet, we see more and more in schools and universities a left-wing academia who are intolerant of anything that isn’t politically correct. Same thing with much of the ‘entertainment’ industry.
Here’s the story. I don’t want to be controlled by upright religious people AND I don’t want to be controlled by uptight intolerant politically correct people either. You respect my beliefs, as long as they don’t hurt another, and I will respect your beliefs. If you try to control me by forcing me to do something that is against my beliefs, your are going to have a problem on your hands.
The fact is, abortion is legal in this country and those who support and utilize it, will or will not have to take that up with whatever higher power they do or do not believe in. DON’T EXPECT OTHERS TO SUBSIDIZE WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS ABORTION as you are stepping on their toes and disrespecting their beliefs. You aren’t losing a d**n thing. You aren’t losing your liberty, freedom or whatever. You are responsible for your own d**n self, others aren’t responsible for you. Boo effing who, got to earn a few extra bucks for birth prevention or have to shill it off others. When did you get the right to have other’s subsidize your sexual activity. Would you dare go over to your neighbors house and ask him/her for birth control? No. If you had a necessary surgery, in a way, by buying insurance which covers it, you are legitimately saying to your neighbor, I need this surgery or I could die. In return, you are telling him/her, if you need such surgery or something similarly important, I will help cover the cost.
What it amounts to is that Fluke and her ilk want demand absolute sexual freedom, but then decide that they don’t want to take any responsibility. Sorry lady, but SCOTUS said that a company is not required to pay all manner of costs for your sexual activity. You cry like a baby and say waa waa, I am being repressed. Get over yourself lady.
It is and should be the responsibility of all parties that engage in sexual activity to take care of their own needs. If you don’t want to pay for all manner of birth prevention have your partner do it, but don’t expect others to pay your way.
Job applications should simply state that pre-menopausal sexually active women need not apply.
That’s a mature response.
To the best of my knowledge before SCOTUS ruled on this, our society didn’t collapse due to people having to pay for their own birth prevention.
The left–inventing crisis for decades…
Thanks, I thought my response was sarcastic but mature is fine by me. As far as paying for birth control/abortion I believe only those who chose to have sex should pay for the consequences. I don’t want to be forced to pay for other peoples sex choices. If the left insists then perhaps screening potential employees is a companies next best choice. The left doesn’t invent crises they are the crisis.
Both men and women use birth control. Please add that any man who had a vasectomy need not apply. That goes for men who use Viagra. Isn’t it a sin for a man to wear a condom?
Ask yourself why people like Mike Huckabee and other conservative politicians why they haven’t popped out more kids. Why Haven’t their wives been constantly pregnant? Do evangelical women breed fewer children? Why? How? Are men & women on the Christian right abstaining after a few children? How are they avoiding sex? Do they sleep in separate bedrooms or do the wives wear chastity belts while their husbands cheat on them?
How many daughters of conservatives have had abortions? Is abortion just a liberal malady?
I don’t what your ranting about. To the best of my knowledge men don’t take the morning after pill or any other abortifacients. I’m no doctor but I don’t think men get abortions either. So your vasectomy comments are invalid but I do hope you personally plan on having one — or tubes tied as the case may be.
You lump all religions together then jump to foolish generalized conclusions. Is religion the only reason to honor the right to life? I won’t try to answer for ALL religions, but Catholic teachings differ from Protestant and both differ from Evangelical. There are 3,300 Christian religions and each has about 10-sub-sects which means just in the Christian world there are over 33,000 doctrines and most do not prohibit the use of birth control. As I said before, what are you ranting about? Why Huckabee doesn’t have more kids is a stupid response to support abortion. My post simply makes the moral decision irrelevent if women working at establishments where religious beliefs are prevalent cannot get pregnant then they will never get abortions — which is all the Hobby Lobby case is about. It didn’t eliminate any existing laws or take away a woman’s ability to obtain medications or devices that cause spontaneous abortions; it simply means their employer won’t pay for it.
You are such a lying sack jacksprocket. No one is preventing any woman from getting and using birth control. In fact, Hobby Lobby’s health plan will still cover 16 of 20 birth control products. You continue your Chicken Little rants and wild ass accusations with absolutely no knowledge or facts.
*LOL* Jacksprocket is my favorite so far.
I love your idea, and if I had a business, that’s exactly what I would do!! Great idea!!
Very well written post!
4 pills out of 20, were Hobby Lobby’s Objection….nothing more!
It’s discrimination.
Then don’t work there.
Hobby Lobby dose provide contraception for their workers. They just don’t provide abortions. There is a big difference that the commieonazis don’t wnat to mention because they are promoting a lie. Anyone surprised?
Abortion is legal. Hobby is using a cheap stunt that will backfire on them. They’ve disrespected their employees and customers for political reasons – not moral.
Uh huh. I’m sure every employee that works for Hobby Lobby is completley oblivious to what they stand for and their principles…. Are you really that dumb? Do you think people are that stupid? Besides, if someone has a problem, then they can work somewhere else.
Oh, and get this. The insurance company still will provide these 4 aborcificants that Hobby Lobby won’t. So they still have them available at little or no cost to the employee. Just the employer won’t have to pay for it.
Yep, I think he is really that dumb. Obviously moonsocket is a libturd and to be that one has to first be totally dumb and stupid, and there isn’t a cure.
Check this story for some reports of some of the ‘tweets’ from the ‘tolerant, compassionate, and understanding’ libs about this case –
http://godfatherpolitics.com/16105/liberals-call-women-sex-hobby-lobby-stores-burn/
Well If you can’t afford buy your own birth control pills and condoms, then I would suggest you can’t afford cell phones and computers to post your dismay on a court ruling that should have never gone to court in the first place. The Bill of Rights was up held here. And if you are that broke, you should not engage in the sort of activity that produces children, oh I forgot there is taxpayer funded abortions so never mind!
So birth control availability should be based on wealth? Is it OK to have sex if your wealthy but not others? Wealthy conservative women get abortions all the time. Daughters in conservative families can afford to travel to get their abortions.
What happens if a conservative man screws around with a single woman who doesn’t have much money? Is the man responsible for the abortion or should the woman suffer because she can’t afford an abortion?
9$ a month is wealth? I’ll ask you again. If everyone else should pay for a woman’s (or mans) birth control, which is a choice made by the individual for the purpose of preventing pregnancy during sex (which would mean sex is for pleasure at that point, not procreation) does that mean all my pleasures should be subsidized or free? Can my tv and cable be free? Can my internet be free? Do you see where I’m going here? Until you explain to me, reasonably, why birth control is a right all a sudden and should be free, then you are just being just as selfish and entitled as those bimbo college co-ed’s who got so famous demanding it be free too.
We ALL should take responsibility for the policies that we vote for. Conservatives take food and health away from poor Americans but insist on more births. The result is suffering and death. That’s NOT what being an American is about. Conservatives use govt. as a weapon of religious persecution.
The ACA is the law. Pay up. You’ll just have to live.
LOL wow, you really dodged that whole question didn’t you? I’ll ask again, why should I pay for someone’s personal recreational choice and responsibility, when none of mine are paid for hmm? Sexual activity and choice is an individuals choice of pleasure, so they should pay for it. Why is it so demanded that an employer, taxpayer, or government must pay for this? Makes absolutely zero sense, and has nothing to do with health. Every time you say its about health, you say pregnancy is a disease.
Men don’t have to pay for Viagra
You commies are the ones who have pushed this sex obsessed culture for the past 50 years. Now you have big problems and want someone else to pay for it. So now they can’t afford photo IDs or birth control, or food, or housing, or clothing, or education, or health care, or transportation, or cell phones, or……………………………….Welcome to Obama’s Amerika
You contradicted yourself like most conservatives. You cause more births and risky pregnancies but you refuse to pay and take responsibility for your actions.
what happens if a conservative man screws around with a single woman? nobody knows, when a conservative man cheats on his wife it’s usually with another man!
I would like to interject that running Hobby Lobby is none of a private woman’s business. So butt out. Every citizens’ responsibilities should and in most cases people agree should be to protect innocent life. There is no more innocent life than that which resides in a woman’s belly. The mother may want it dead, but if all of us who wanted somebody dead had the LEGAL go – ahead – as the mother has – there’d be a run on coffins.
Never better stated!
Hobby Lobby is one of my businesses and I will support them every chance I get!
If an employee expects Hobby Lobby to pay for her birth control, it is absolutely Hobby Lobby’s business. Beside the ruling only addressed 4 abortion type drugs, not birth control. Birth control should actually be termed “Pregnancy Control”.
Think about this. Let’s pay for Liberals birth control AND abortions. They will become extinct.
Ladies should take care of birth control and pay for it. I am not your boyfriend, lover, paramour so don’t be offended if I do not want to pick up the tab for your BC pills.
In other words if you own a business you are supposed to give up your religious rights??? If you do not want to get pregnant you have two choices. abstinence or buy your own birth control pills or prophylactics. Oh oh I guess that makes me uncompassionate .Boo Hoo
This was not even part of the original ACA, BHO added it in afterward by executive order. Illegal laws or rules, such as this should not be enforceable to begin with?
this has nothing to do with Birth Control. It has to do with religious freedom. It has to do with the darn government wanting to control EVERYTHING.
It should have to do with freedom FROM religious persecution. This is a cynical decision by 5 incompetent justices. If the company were owned by Muslims, the justices would have voted in favor of the ACA.
Here is a hint. IT is religious persecution if you force someone to provide “birth control” to someone else if it is against their religion.
It was no victory for religious liberty as the concept has been understood for hundreds of years. The decision was another radical expansion of corporate power
Birth control DOES become Hobby Lobby’s business when Hobby Lobby is expected to pay for it! This SC decision was the right one, but as long as companies are compelled to pay the their employees’ medical bills something is wrong. What, if any, benefits a company provides for its workers is a issue between the company and those workers. The government should not be in the middle of it. The government’s role comes in making sure that both sides–management and labor–live up to whatever agreements they reach.
Justice Alito says corporations are people. Does he sleep with a miniature of The Statue of Liberty?
The court is amending our constitution. It will now read “We the corporations…”!
The ruling is not against birth control, it is against abortion. Birth control will still be paid for by the company’s insurance. The “morning after pill” (abortion) is still available to the employees but the insurance will not pay for it.
It is not the government’s place to demand businesses provide any sort of benefits. Before the 1950’s, people just worked for their wages and that is it! Benefits started being offered because the govt. put a ceiling on wages earned but not on benefits given to the employees. Again, the govt. causes a problem and then tries to “fix” the problem by making the problem even worse.
If that is correct then they should not have to pay for birth control,that is a womans responsibility,hobby lobby should be able to decide WHAT THEY PAY FOR since they are paying,if the woman wants something extra,SHE SHOULD PAY FOR IT
The Liberal loons will never understand Reality it is what will destroy their whole game plan!
Your birth control is not the governments business or anyone but yours and your doctor.
The larger question for me is why the irrational leftist believe that I and others should pay for the irresponsible sexual behavior of individuals suffering from a lack of self-control. When told by government or others in position of authority that I must pay for their immoral and less than responsible behavior, then at that point their behavior becomes my business. You want me to stay out of your bedroom? Then don’t force me to pay for the pre-and post results of what happens in that bedroom! Pay for yourself or exercise some self-control and restraint.