Original Sin and a Southern Snow Storm

G. K. Chesterton wrote in Orthodoxy:

Modern masters of science are much impressed with the need of beginning all inquiry with a fact. The ancient masters of religion were quite equally impressed with that necessity. They began with the fact of sin—a fact as practical as potatoes. . . . Certain new theologians dispute original sin, which is the only part of Christian theology which can really be proved.

Malcolm Muggeridge, derivatively but more succinctly, said, “The depravity of man is at once the most empirically verifiable reality but at the same time the most intellectually resisted fact.”

Yes indeed. Let me tell you a little story.

Monday night, my sister called me. She said, “Hey Michael. There’s supposed to be a snow storm tomorrow. Why don’t you guys come up to mom and dad’s and we’ll all be snowed in together. It will be fun.”

I also thought it would be fun. My wife and four kids agreed. We live in Marietta. My parents’ log cabin is in Sugar Hill. It usually takes about one hour to drive there. But my wife wasn’t able to finish all the things she needed to do on Monday night, so we had to wait until Tuesday to leave. Big mistake.

Yesterday, my wife and four kids and I were in a vehicle for nine and a half hours. We could have driven to Miami or halfway to Mexico City in that same time. I calculated that, on average, we traveled a little less than five miles per hour. To put that in perspective, the average human walking speed is a little more than three miles an hour.

If it hadn’t been for my wife’s navigational skills and my childrens’ extraordinary patience, there would have been blood. As it was, I was struck by the overwhelming reality of human depravity and folly.

Let me tell all of you who may not live in the South that people here have no clue how to drive on snow and ice. By that, I mean that they are the most horrendous and ridiculous combination of ignorance and panic. Hundreds of people put our lives in danger yesterday through nothing short of sheer stupid selfishness and irrational fear.

Isn’t it obvious to anyone that acceleration (by braking or speeding up) is not good on the ice? If you are sliding, jamming on your brakes or your accelerator is not going to work out well for you. Duh. But in a fear-induced panic, that is exactly what pretty much everyone here did. And then they would be blocking traffic in a disabled vehicle. So what did they do? Exactly what you’d expect. They abandoned their vehicles. Sometimes in the middle of the road. They just quit. “Who cares about anyone else. I’m done.”

I also expected that the snow might bring out more courtesy in people. I mean we were all in the middle of this mess. So maybe it would draw out camaraderie and human empathy. No. Maybe in about one percent of cases. But most people were far worse than usual. And, just in case you were wondering, they are usually really bad. But yesterday, they were even more vicious, selfish, unhelpful, and lame than usual.

The onramp onto Highway 400 from 285 was a classic example. ((That particular onramp is pictured above. License plates have been obscured to protect the mean and stupid.)) A whole line of people in the slow lane, moving about one foot every five minutes. And, at the head of the long queue, another queue had formed—one of people who were not going to wait in line. These people were cutting everyone off. And they were literally forcing their way in, as if their usual consideration for the paint jobs of their Mercedes and Priuses had vanished.

I know that the fastest way to move, usually, is to let people in and try to keep traffic moving. But in this case, that wouldn’t have worked. The waiting line was not moving at all. There was hardly any interweaving of queues going on. It was just the selfish oppressing the mannerly.

Once I had gotten up to the end of the line, after waiting for hours, I wasn’t going to let people cut in. A man beside me, trying to cut in, made a motion with his hand that I should let him in. I shook my head and rolled my window down. I said, as politely as I could muster, “What you are doing is wrong. What you are doing here… It’s wrong.” He was angry with me, but my point remains. He was making things much worse for others, but he didn’t care. None of them did.

Then there’s the story of our lovely civil government. They failed to cancel schools and close government offices yesterday. When they realized around noon that they had made a monumental mistake, they decided to cancel everything. All at once. Fail. Apparently, there were hundreds of kids stranded overnight in schools. There were hundreds of abandoned cars everywhere. It was mayhem and madness, in other words. A circus, but not the fun kind, as a few others have said.

We couldn’t even make it all the way to my parents’ house in our minivan. In the last ten minutes of our trip, the rural roads got entirely clogged. Lanes ceased to mean anything. Cars spun out, drifted helplessly, and careened like pins being relocated in slow motion by an invisible bowling ball. We tried making it up a hill out of a Kroger parking lot. Three quarters of the way up, we lost all traction. We started rolling and sliding backward, spun about, bumper-tired off the curb, and finally slid down into the flat of the parking lot again. ((My youngest child enjoyed this part more than any other portion of the trip.)) We saw dozens of cars doing the same thing, some to much worse effect (one guy broke his wheel off on the curb). I parked the car and called a friend nearby who has four-wheel-drive. After being picked up, we finally got to my parents’ house at 9:30 pm—exhausted, hungry, and flabbergasted.

Never have I been so convinced of original sin and the reality of total depravity. Left to their own devices, few people are anything other than selfish, terrible people. My wife and children were exceptions here. Their patience astounded me. But I know firsthand the work (on my wife’s part and mine) that has gone into that. That isn’t human nature, and I didn’t just get lucky. That’s extra-human nurture and super-human labor. There were some extraordinary acts of assistance and heroism yesterday, but in each case the exception proves the rule.

I think we can put the human nature question to rest. Chesterton, Muggeridge, the Bible—they’re right. You can disagree all you want. But if you think people are inherently good, you’re fighting a losing battle against objective verification and reality. And you’ve obviously never been in the South during a snow storm.

56 responses

  1. Notice that each snow storm gets worse this year. At the same time, Kerry is constantly pressuring Israel to divide her land. Every time our president goes after Israel, we get a terrible storm within 48 hours. Katrina happened the week that Bush was pressuring Israel to divide. Hurricane Andrew also followed a speech by the president to divide her land. It happens over and over. Coincidence? Hardly. The Bible tells us that God will “curse those who curse Israel and bless those who bless Israel”.

    • I think socialist bloggers will love your post, because the snow storm hit the South right where the most Conservative people live. I am right in the middle of it. The temperature has not risen above 32 degrees all day. BUT, you really nailed it, it is promised by GOD and it is given by GOD.

      We do have our socialists, antichrist here, plenty of them, only the percentage by count is much lower that any other part of the country, and whatever GOD sends I will welcome because HE knows exactly what HE is doing.

      • It’s funny to hear Christian’s talk about how it’s the “wrath of god” when a storm hits a “liberal city” but seem soooooo confused when it hits there home!!!

        • Poor little sad lonely scumbag liberal homo TROLL, Blobbie.
          Q: What was the first symptom of AIDS that Blobbie first thought it was the “wrath of god”?
          A: A pounding sensation in his a$$ by his OWS tentmate buttbuddy.

    • Include Sharon’s stroke that left him in a long time coma before his recent death. It happened shortly after he decided to give away the Gaza strip.

    • That being the case you have to wonder why the countries that are trying to push Israel into the sea don’t get hit with storms?

  2. I look in Genesis 1 at the garden and I can’t find any mention of original sin – or even sin. How s original sin proven?

    • Check out Genesis 1:8-26. Most people with average intelligence, can surely figure that the murder of Abel was a sin, and that that was the original or the first sin,even though the word was not mentioned.

        • The “original sin” is a man made term, but you are right in that Adam and Eve eating the forbidden was termed ” the original sin” but both were sins mentioned in Genesis

          • I don’t consider what people infer – I only consider – since I am as you say of less than average intelligence – what is specifically written in the scriptures. God did not mention that anything they did in the garden was sin. He said their eyes would be opened and they would start – knowing (deciding and determining based on what they see think feel if you look at the original word that God had Moses use) good and evil. Sin doesn’t come up until just before Cain kills Abel – and I know – even being of less than average intelligence – that this is what most people call sin.

            However – the word translated ‘sin’ comes from many Hebrew and Greek words. Have you ever look at their meanings in the original to see what they mean exactly?

          • God told Adam, “you are free to eat any from any tree in the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genesis 2:16-17

          • It said ‘in the day you eat you will surely die” So how did they walk around in the garden and then get thrown out and that flaming sword angel guarding the entrance happen ? There is equivalency between surely die and your eyes being opened and you start defining specifying or determining what is good and what is evil – 2 descriptions refer to the same thing – and hence these things are written so you might believe and by believing you can have life – or let the dead bury the dead – eyc

          • Yes, & in the Hebrew “Thou shalt surely die” actually translates, albeit a bit redundantly, to “Dying thou shalt surely die” postulating that a process had begun that would certainly culminate in a decided finality.

          • I thought it was Satan that said their eyes would be open and they would become as God…And l thought the original sin was what Satan did in Heaven that got him kicked out…Or the disobeying God. But one thing for sure, we Have the Ten Commandment to help keep us straight now…. I think we were all born sinners so it had to do with Adam and Eve disobeying God. I love the Bible, l love learning from it…Always something new to learn…

          • The biblical concepts of sin and salvation are an intrinsic part of Christian doctrine. Christianity first creates a problem (sin) and then offers a “solution” (salvation). This is not unlike the protection racket you either buy “protection” or else!

          • He never did get unstuck from his chair so he could make a trip to the dumpster area behind his favorite gay bar.

            I bet the first gay Transformer will morph into a Prius and Blobbie will be it’s companion…

          • So you would have us just ignore what you are and what is most important to you?

            Q: How did Mr Blobbie tell that his OWS tentmate buttbuddy was queer?
            A: bobbie said his dick tasted like $hit!

          • Sad little scumbag homo TROLL, Blobbie is back seeking attention. He is so caught up in his addition to this conservative blog that he has no other human contact especially via facebook , twitter or intagram. Of course don’t forget other than his homoerotic persuasions he’s is so grotesque that he often gets glued to his chair because he has lost control of his functions and forgets to have adult diapers delivered.

            In appreciation for the weather in the deep south right now I present the following;

            Q: What do you get when you cross an eskimo and homo TROLL BoB?
            A: A snowblower.

          • We know where Blobbie, the resident scumbag liberal homo TROLL gets his inspiration….

            By the dumpsters behind his favorite gay establishment!!!

      • No, the original sin was Adam wanting to be like God which is why he ate the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

          • Actually, “Adam” was the name of BOTH of them (“Eve” was not monikered that until after they were out of the garden). The Male, being the “head” & first created of the Family apparently was not too eager to protect & look after not only the garden but also lost sight of caring for his “Bone of his Bone, & Flesh of his Flesh” and carelessly ignored her to the point she simply left him (It’s called estrangement which always precipitates divorce). Then, as now, “SIN” is merely a symptom or the fruit of the real underlying dis-ease & problem: “Ego”.

          • Whilst I think you’re just trying to be divisive…..

            But here is the truth in verity: Not every detail is spelled out to us in a readers digest version of the Torah [genesis].

            The Written word was a lesser light to bring us into a revelation of the author behind that book…but instead as oft is the case with the human ego, we’d rather worship the book, or a man & stay with the congregational mind-think than accept the invitation & go up the mountain to meet face to face with our G*D.

            The human condition is almost the same as it was from the hand of G*D in creation except for the blight of sin & degradation plus the weird aspect of G*D (Albeit omnipotent) being bound by the bands of sin & blight upon creation as well (He is certainly not removed from the plight of his people like he’s on vacation some-where nice whilst his creation is under the blight & plight of sin, n’est pas?).

            Human dynamic’s was, is & always will be a rather unique aspect of being human being created in the image of G*D….& it is what makes things interesting, creative, & dynamic & us not “Robots”

            The very SAME emotions, characteristic’s, & ego that we struggle with to-day are the very same ones the original pre-fall people struggled with as well.

            Not too much has changed really, if one lends some humbly submitted at the foot of the throne critical thinking to the issue.

            Suffice it enough to say that G*D draws near unto US in “Judgment”….and that he joins us in reasoning things to-gether with him.

            There are things not so plainly written in Holy Writ that a person, in careful & humble commune with his Creator, can dialogue, discuss, & discern.

            It was, what the original design was intended to be: Face-to-face if not Hand-in-hand walk & talks with the very Creator of ourselves….the Wife, [being bone of our bone & flesh of our flesh], a “Help-Meet” to help us in our interactions with that which is SEEN, figure out our relationship with the very same paradox of us being Bone of His Bone & Flesh of his flesh….being made & fashioned in HIS Image after all….does not mean being made different or not in his image. If I look into a mirror I see my image. If I look into the face & eyes of my wifey or a fellow human being I see my image BUT I also am supposed to discern & see the very image of G*D also.

            We’ve lost this level of truth I’m afraid: Everything is oh so superficial that we cannot see the layers of truth that are designed to bring us into a face-to-face communion with the very Creator of all that is seen.

            In that relationship is “salvation” & freedom from self, ego & the symptoms of an ego-centric narcissistic lived life: “Sin”.

            Salvation has never been a future destination nor a removing of one’s “Selfish self” from an external condition.

            There has always been a need for the plan of salvation even in the garden of eden where everything external was “perfect”.

            Salvation has from the garden to the present been a very PRESENT need & issue for all of us to be grasped and taken a hold-of by: Freedom from selfish self-centric narcissism leads to a life lived without the symptoms of that sort of selfish self-centered egotistical life: Free From Sin.

            Self & ego is the problem. Death to self is the cure. Without an ego or selfishness, there is no Sin.

            Had Adam the Husband, faced with the plight of his wifey simply taken the matter before G*D (Who was ever present & *there* anyways) and humbly submitted his EGO or Self-directed pursuits to G*D, he could’ve laid down his life to redeem his wifey’s from the results of her selfishness and sin.

            But Adam, like his wifey, was estranged from G*D even at this juncture as evidenced by his actions.

            Actions speak louder than words…but the implication of Adam blaming G*D for the wifey he gave her for ruining everything speaks VOLUMES of & about his OWN Selfishness, Ego & how estranged he himself had become from not only his wifey but also from G*D.

            “Ego” grows like a weed in the garden of ones mind…it does NOT happen instantaneously nor over night….but is bolder & grows stronger with each practice and indulgence….Thought becomes action, action becomes habit….habits become character…character is revealed in the strait & challenging circumstances of every-day life.

            It matters not where we are or the place in which we occupy….selfish people are selfish people under the great myriad of conditions.

            It’s why Lottery winners simply & merely end up just as poor & perhaps even worse off than they were prior to winning the lottery….Money, like most things, only makes people MORE of what they already are…because their ego, their self, their previously erroneous self-made habits are merely magnified with the winnings bringing them to desolation and debauchery.

            “For the first 30 years of your life, you make your habits. For the last 30 years of your life, your habits make you.” – A Vedic Hindu saying

          • Seriously??

            You think only when someone leaves or D-I-V-O-R-C-E-S that THEN is when when 2 people “Split”??.

            Man, you gotta do just a little remedial studying on Human relationships & interpersonal dynamic’s…seriously.

            Are you by-chance English 2nd. Language?? Because if you are I would understand your not quite getting it since I am also English 2nd. Language.

            When people SPLIT or Divorce or get officially estranged it is ONLY due & owing to a precipitated split in the relationship that culminates with an irreparable finality called or termed a split.

            First the Blade, then the ear THEN the fruit in the ear…..

            The Fruit of any relationship is only externalised & seen after the plant itself grows & matures.

            The Split is only seen & realised after the growing disenfranchisement & estrangement has reached a like-wise maturity

            The very fact that Adam mindlessly allowed or did not dialogue with his wifey who was wondering off from him…. the equally important fact that his wifey didn’t even dialogue or inform him that she was going off to look at some things…

            That term scientifically is called Duality…..when from the onset the Created Couple were supposed to be of ONE MIND and in singularity or in union with each other & with G*D.

            The mere actions that followed their stinking thinking & thus their habits & character was simply revealed in the results of estrangement which only worsened in that dichotomy when G*D confronted them about what they had done (Note that he approached the “Head” of the Family Unit the Male before he blamed G*D & thus deflected over to the female who also blamed G*D & then deflected to the serpent).

            Seriously, there is so much that is not needing to be meticulously detailed in the Holy Script about what really happened that it is an insult to ones own supposedly well constituted and marginally educated mind that I should not have to even detail it herein this venue.

            Enough said…I think you’re either English 2nd. Language or not that well familiar with either rightly studying the Holy Writ or you’re just being contentious simply to be contentious.

            One can only reason with reasonable people.

          • You can insult me all you want – but all I’m asking is where does it say in the scriptures they split?

          • Insult you?? Where’d I do that??

            The English 2nd. Language thing? Really??

            Especially when I’m English 2nd. Language as well??.

            Woweza~! Only in the mind of a liberal can that “Connection” be made & thus verbally asserted.

            Here, from George Carlin:

            “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
            ― George Carlin

          • Not getting it – all I did was ask where the scripture says Adam and Eve split up – several times, and it hasn’t been presented yet – so how come it is I who is not getting it?

          • Ok, let me spell it out for yous:

            You’re not getting it because you’re simply in it for the argument…..not for learning.

            You’re in it to find something to dispute….not something to learn from.

            You want the answers exactly & in written form & I’ve already informed you that Holy Writ is simply an inferior revelation of things…that G*D Gave mankind a MIND with which to think with, Eyes with which to observe things with, & ears to listen & learn.

            G*D did not lay things out line-upon-line so you can examine each Jot & Tittle and argue about the things that are missing or not exactly printed or spelled out & detailed for your disputations.

            G*D also does not reveal things to the foolish & to the Surface walker who merely expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter without any reasoning or work of thought & examination embarked upon by the use of their own mind.

            G*D does not deal with the careless & the headstrong with anything more than “Milk”.

            Meesa thinks you’re not even on milk nor the least bit ready for the stronger solid food-stuffs, but oh well…we’re all there in that predicament perhaps.

            Several places within Holy Writ it keenly describes God’s Word (doctrine) as both “milk,” & “solid food” (meat). AND since those thus bar/bat mitzvah’ed are directed to grow into spiritual maturity, he or she should understand that it is necessary to transition from the “milk” to the “solid food” of & from the Holy Writ. Such growth can occur no other way. Furthermore, it is only by “use” of the “solid food” of Holy Writ that a follower of the Unseen G*D may fully discern both good & evil (Hebrews 5:14).

            This being the case, an understanding of that which is “milk” & that which is “solid food” should be the focus of every person as he or she studies Holy Writ.

            G*D can make no mistake & does everything perfectly. Therefore, when we in Holy Writ encounter the use of two different words, both of which, for example the King James Version translates “knowledge,” we do a proper exegesis and hermenuetically judge & logically recognise that difference between gnosis, which simply means “knowledge,” & epignosis, which means “deeper knowledge” or “superior knowledge,” since the prefix epi means “above,” “beyond,” “after” or “deeper.”

            To the un-mitzvah’ed person there is the possibility of getting a “knowledge” of the Messiach Ha Mashia & that brings in the knowledge & effectual intelligent salvation. “& this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true G*D, and Messiach whom You have sent” (John 17:3). A personal knowledge of the Messiach (Baruch HaShem Hamashia), comes under the convicting teaching & extrapolating constraining power of G*D, thus enables one to be mitzvah’ed & enter into a communal covenant with G*D wherein our thoughts translated into words & actions betray the mastery that enslaves us either of life unto life or death unto death. (Matthew 16:16-18; John 1:12, 13; Romans 10:8-10).

            Such knowledge, though fundamental & absolutely essential, is nonetheless elementary & belongs to the infancy & babyhood days of the individual mitzvah’ed persons experience. Such mitzvah’ed people possessing only this gnosis (knowledge) are called by Holy Writ to be “babes” who can digest only milk (1 Corinthians 3:1,2; Hebrews 5:11-14).

            Holy Writ is sufficient to introduce to our thinking the fact that G*D speaks of the elementary truths for newly mitzvah’ed people as “milk;” & there is another set of truths for mature mitzvah’ed people that the G*D calls the “solid food” (meat) of the Holy Writ. Milk is an interesting food for babies. Actually, milk upon which babies thrive and by which they begin to grow is in actuality solid food that another has eaten, digested, & converted into milk. This illustration can be carried into the realm of the discerning & learning the revelation of G*D. The milk of Holy Writ is the solid food of that same Holy Writ that others have read, studied, assimilated, & converted into elementary terms so an infant in the mitzvah process can understand.

            Apparently I have failed at presenting this milk to you sufficiently that it would invite an investigation rather than an argumentative confrontation demanding “…where the scripture says Adam and Eve split up”.

            Clearly you have to have every little detail outlined for you in order for you to grasp the concepts.

            How’d you ever learn to do the job you presently do??. By Thinking, listening, thoughtful mulling & examination or by expecting line-by-line instructions on how to do it, when to do it & why to do it without any expectations of you actually thinking about things as well??.

            In Musique, what determines the structure of what you play on a guitar??…..the EXACT outline letter of notes on the graph of paper or the heart & interpretation one gives to the Musique through their own insightful inspiration and feeling??.

            When you play with others, you’ll learn to enter into a communion of sorts with the other players and the chemistry MELDS the group to-gether so that they can accomplish much more as a COHESIVE Group in interpreting and expressing musique than a single person could with his lone solo guitar, n’est pas??.

            Let’s take CAD Designs? Everything works great in theory & on paper. The Dry mechanical outlines of a CAD Design recommend logical working theory that until the actual item is manufactured & produced AND Implemented into the Heat/Cold Dry/Wet & the whole HOSTA of myriad of other peripheral unaccountable for real-world working scenario’s there would be no need to simply re-tool & re-work things if a CAD Designer is simply going to throw the Plotted plans in the face of the person on the floor & dry state “Here it is, it says RIGHT HERE that everything you’re saying about how the item is actually turning out is or cannot be true”.

            There simply is not adamant line directly stating that “they split”…it is inferred and it is buried as is precious treasure…..Holy writ clearly & keenly expresses the human relational dynamic’s and underlying causal effects that led to the process of the fall.

            Where in Holy Writ does it clearly state that “Gravity” exists or that it is force that pulls at us instead of perhaps pressing down on us??

            What about the Bernoulli principle with regards to Aire-Flight??. it was always thought that the Aire Buoyed UP an Air-Craft (Like a Stone Skipping along the top surface of a pond) & it is still disputed to this day that perhaps the aire actually going OVER the top of the wings on an Aire-Craft is PULLING it up & thus creating the buoyancy….not the aire UNDER the wings.

            Why would Adam have to name his Wifey (Who was also known as “Adam”) “Eve” after the fact had there NOT been a “Split”??.

            Did G*D make a mistake in not naming her to begin with….or did Adam make the mistake in not individualising her with her own name??.

            Jeeeze…this rabbit hole of discovery could go on & interestingly on & on to depths of inquisition that you or I alone could never think to examine or consider.

            I wonder why I’ve involved myself in this dissertation on this issue with such fervency….

          • This is interesting – you are saying things are not spelled out and that I am supposed to believe something you say God intended even though it is not in the scripture – I’m not trying to argue – I was just asking a question because I didn’t remember seeing it in there – but you seem to be saying there is something in there that I am able to know this because I may be foolish or a surface walker – but I have a hard time believing something someone says when it is not backed up by scripture – as in

            1 Corinthians 4

            6And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

            2 Corinthians 1

            13For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end; 14

            And I don’t see why you just can’t show me the scriptures where you got that idea that I can’t find.

            Isaiah 28

            10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

            So this isn’t true?

          • Isaiah 8:20

            Doesn’t say if they do not quote strictly & only the written word…..

            If one speaks ACCORDING to some-thing it means they are in harmony with it and following the same theme enjoined in that “Thing” they are speaking in accordance with.

            Like Sunday (1st Day of the week) Worship. There is NOTHING in Sola Scriptura that specifically states that Messiach nor G*D somehow thought to change the times, days & laws of his own Holy Script favouring Sunday in lieu of the from Creation & time memorial the 7th Day shabbot.

            NOTHING. However there is a Sola Scpritura that dennotes that the man of perdition would think to change times & laws ….and I betcha $1000.00USD that you are thinking that you are following in accordance with Holy Writ by motocycling on over to “Church” on Sundays & doing your oblation, right??.

            Remember, Messiach clearly & keenly states emphatically in Matthew 5:17.

            To fulfilll:

            “bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize”
            “carry out (a task, duty, or role) as required, pledged, or expected.”
            “synonyms: achieve, attain, realize, actualize, make happen, succeed in, bring to completion, bring to fruition, satisfy”

            Sorry, I don;t see any definition where it states that in what Messiach did somehow removed the duty & responsibility for us to also do like-wise….else one would inviolate Messaichs own words in John 14:12 pertaining to US.

            Any thing less than this?? is what I like to term Joel Olsteen type churchianity & is NOT in accordance with Sola Scriptura.

            Joel Olsteens “Church” being in actuality a private for profit business enterprise, rather than a non-profit church whose books would be open for public review (As opposed to a private enterprise whose books are only available for the board of directors to review and see).

            But you’ll come back & somehow argue even this, I’m sure, is not in accordance with Sola Scriptura or Holy, Writ…won’t you!!

            Here’s the issue:

            You’re proposing that the written word is the ONLY revelation of G*D to his creation.

            I contend that it is an INFERIOR revelation. It was not the original “Book” of revelation of G*D unto his creation.

            The original design of the plan of salvation from ego and a self-destructive self-centered narcissistic life aborting the very essence of life itself (G*D) from within the midst of his temple (us) is/was outlined thusly in Nature and submitted for consideration in Isaiah 30:21. We are designed to HEAR the very voice of G*D instructing us, guiding us, teaching us….but we would not, as is additionally stated in: Isaiah 30:15.

            The one & only gospel & covenant is & was simply this: Jeremiah 31:33-34

            it’s what he tried to do at Mt. Sinai but the people didn’t want to go up & commune with G*D they rather wanted MOSHE to do that & “represent”.

            So G*D had to dumb things down even further in an attempt to reach out to his people.

            As “Men” became more estranged & dull in their senses towards the “issues of G*D”, there was a commencement towards trying to rectify this stupidity of Man by G*D by trying to re-package & illustrate things in a different perspective….like the milk scenario.

            Not being able to take the overwhelming strong solid food of revelation of G*D to his creation, milk had to be instead formulated in order to placate this ignorance and stupidity.

            Sorta like the Sun Arising all of a sudden so that the day-light at the beginning of the day would be just as bright as the noon-day sun-shine…..it would be an affront to the senses and overwhelmingly blinding if not debilitating to the person so immersed in that sun-light, no??.

            The heavens & the earth declare the glory & revelation of G*D. But we didn’t quite “Get it” nor listen for that still small voice….because we want to do our own thing &live our own life and pretend that somehow when we die, that we’re also going to “Heaven” (Another fallacy not based upon Holy-Writ).

            SMH…how far down the rabbit hole do you want to go??

            This is good for me but I’m worried that you are merely playing and toying with this serious issue….out for a joy-ride as it were…

            Oh well, it won’t hurt me to continue these diatribes….they are invigorating to my enfeebled mind.

            Like a brisk walk after supper is good for the over-all constitution & beneficial to the health of the body.

            Cheers for that I guess?? lolz.

          • If you think the written Word is inferior I have to stop this – It says He magnified His Word above His Name – so I am sticking with The Written Word – I guess we’ll have to see the answer in the coming Kingdom – God Bless you Make His face Shine upon you and be merciful to you and give you peace.

            eg

          • Ok,

            Tho we perceive as if through an obfuscated glass darkened…I guess there’s no moving forward from simple peering through and past the types & shadows then??

            My, My, My…such an utter invitation of hubris stagnation.

            Thought you had more fight in you then this.

            Inferior means there is something far more superior…..does not discount the inferior as non-important nor apropos.

            Going back for remedial math-courses at a technical school to refresh you knowledge & therefore appropriate use of math skills in the job you now do does not discount the technical school level “math” as unimportant….it merely is inferior to the math you need to use in the present work-place.

            You’ve stunted yourself on purpose not realising the original plan & purpose of the Prophets (Who were inferior), Moshe, (Who was inferior), The various Temples patterned after the plan in the Mount shown to Moshe (Inferior), the sacrificial system (Also inferior since G*D did not delight in the blood of goats & bulls), The written word (1st. the Torah & the subsequent volumes including the NT: All like the predecessors: Inferior), heck even the word made flesh (Messiach, Baruch HaShem HaMashia) was an inferior revelation of what the main purpose of all the summation & goal of the expressed revelation of G*D (Be it in Creation, in the Temple, in the visage of prophets or the written word & yes, even in the corporeal aspect of Messiach).

            All are simply substitutionary for the actual face-to-face communion that is the goal: Graduation if you will permit.

            No one stays stuck in their trade-school curriculum, do they??.

            Did you??. Didn’t you rather take what you had Book-learned & perhaps apprenticed and apply those skills adding to them & building up an actual factual experiential extension of your mere inferior book-learning??.

            Un-believable that at your age you would not comprehend this……you’re supposed to be the very first fruits of the greatest of all the American Generations!!.

            What happened?? Too much chlorine & florine in your drinking water closed off your pineal gland perceptions??.

            Sigh…..oh well.

            I’ll go & strike up a convo with BOB I guess…..he is begging for an answer to his concern about the belly-a-going snake subsequently walking around as outlined in the bible.

          • Adam names his wife when they meet for the first time in the garden. When they were caste from the Garden the split was from God not Adam from Eva. Though they still talked to God, their relationship with God changed.

            yes, lots of “Ego” things and blaming others…. but that all came from eating the fruit from the tree of Knowledge.

          • Could not reply to your next post yet… was not final approved by admin….

            Incorrect on them being out of the garden…

            Gene: 3:20 called her Eva. Three verse later they are caste out of the garden.
            This is from Gen: chapter 3:
            23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. 24He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

            In Gen he called to his wife, Woman when they first meet. However, they were still in the Garden when Adam called her Eva. It was after eating the forbidden fruit, but before they were caste out.

          • I wonder why Adam & Eve didn’t find it a bit strange that a snake could talk & if Lucifer was the snake & condemned to crawl on his belly for eternity why is he walking around later in the bible???

          • You should try reading the Bible and you’ll find out. To start it was not a snake, it was a serpent. I’ll give you that over the years people did not really understand the difference snake and serpent and now today, it is generally accepted as the same mean… Here is a definition from a dictionary:

            serpent |ˈsərpənt|
            noun
            1 chiefly literary a large snake.
            • ( the Serpent )a biblical name for Satan (see Gen. 3, Rev. 20).
            • a dragon or other mythical snakelike reptile.
            2 a sly or treacherous person, esp. one who exploits a position of trust in order to betray it.
            ORIGIN Middle English: via Old French from Latin serpent- ‘creeping,’ from the verb serpere .

            If you notice the use the word chiefly… that because it is not a snake, but mainly accepted as a snake…
            Lots of fallen Angels in the Bible, are you 100% sure same fallen angel. I’ll answer that for you, No, you where not there. Two, I remember Satan being part of other stories in the Bible later on (of course), but I can not recall them saying he was walking around, just that he is there… This would be an subject that one would have to go back to original text in the original language to make sure it was not translated poorly (if it is written as walked around).

          • Actually I have read it. THAT is the reason I’m an atheist! Well then the serpent was cursed by god to crawl & satan is walking around later in the bible

        • This is very close but not quite exactly correct – but so close only semantics – is slightly ambiguous. Look up the word know or knowing in the Hebrew – there’s the real answer.

        • The whole foundation of Christianity is based on the idea that intellectualism is the work of the Devil. Remember the apple on the tree? Okay, it was the Tree of Knowledge. ‘You eat this apple, you’re going to be as smart as God. We can’t have that.’

  3. In the North, where we have snow more frequently, I have never had a problem with fellow suffers of snow.

    And, there is absolutely no connection of human behavior with our cooling planet and the Alberta clippers pouring down form the North. We had very similar weather in the late 1970s in Iowa that went on for over two months.

    Sam, God does not make the weather. The laws of nature make the weather. God does fiddle with them. Sorry to make you less important than you think you are.

  4. If G-d wanted to use His powers to smite the enemy would he not have leveled Hiltler and Stalin without our intervention? What did your people do to deserve the Dust Bowl?
    I know you people think that you know the will of G-d and how He works even though he admonished you to not presume to know why He does thing. There are much more to this Universe then can be encapsulated into your philosophy. That science that you are so oft to dispel can not be ignored if you don’t want to leave out most of the facts.

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2014/01/16/free-live-stream-debate?utm_source=aigsocial01162014free-live-strea%2C&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebooktwittergooglehttp://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2014/01/16/free-live-stream-debate?utm_source=aigsocial01162014free-live-strea%2C&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebooktwittergoogle

  5. Mr Minkoff, move to LA or NYC (if you can afford it) where you’ll find some normal people instead of total depravity you find in the bible belt of the south.

  6. I wouldn’t worry about hell freezing over. They have soooooo many scientists down there I’m sure the climate is controlled

  7. Try L.A. when it RAINS! You think Atlantans are bad, wait until you see “Freeway Capades”! That’s what happens when you try to live “The Fast And The Furious”!

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