National Popular Vote (NPV) Compact Over Halfway There

New York is the latest state to climb aboard the National Popular Vote (NPV) bandwagon that would effectively destroy the original purpose of the Electoral College.

The NPV compact is an agreement between the Electoral Colleges of different states to grant their votes to the presidential candidate who wins the national, not state-wide, popular vote. There are many people that do not recognize how important this subtle shift actually is. So let me break it down for you.

The Electoral College was designed by the Founding Fathers to protect the election of the president from a strict national majority. They believed that the President should be selected by knowledgeable and discerning “electors” chosen to represent each state. Most of the Founders were decidely against the idea that the federal government should have direct dealings with the people.

They enacted checks and balances so that the interests of states would be in competition with the interests of the national government, the interests of counties would be in competition with the interests of states, and the people would have the majority of their dealings with their local governments.

For this reason, a large number of the Anti-Federalists hated the famous first three words of the national Constitution. One of the biggest Anti-Federalist detractors, Patrick Henry, asked:

. . . Sir, give me leave to demand, What right had they to say, We, the people? My political curiosity, exclusive of my anxious solicitude for the public welfare, leads me to ask: Who authorized them to speak the language of, We, the people, instead of, We, the states? States are the characteristics and the soul of confederation. If the states be not the agents of this compact, it must be one, great, consolidated, national government, of the people of all states.

Responding to this criticism, James Madison explained that “We the People” meant the people of the states, which represented their own people in the national government:

Who are parties to it [the Constitution]? The people—but not the people as composing one great body; but the people as composing thirteen sovereignties. Were it, as the gentleman [Patrick Henry] asserts, a consolidated government, the assent of a majority of the people would be sufficient for its establishment; and, as a majority have adopted it already, the remaining states would be bound by the act of the majority, even if they unanimously reprobated it. Were it such a government as is suggested, it would be now binding on the people of this state, without having had the privilege of deliberating upon it. But, sir, no state is bound by it, as it is, without its own consent.

Why were both Madison and Henry, and really all the Founding Fathers—both Federalists and Anti-Federalists—so adamant that the national government should be a confederated republic rather than a consolidated pure democracy? Madison, in Federalist No. 10, offered this categorical criticism of democracy:

. . . Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions.

Ain’t that the truth. Proponents of pure democracy only purport to serve the best interests of the people. In reality, pure democracies almost always devolve into tyrannies through the controlling influence of factions and demagogues. Note that it didn’t take even one generation for the pure democracy of the French Revolution to devolve into the despotic Napoleonic empire. Or the pure democracy of the Bolshevik Revolution to devolve into autocratic consolidation under Stalin. This is not a mere coincidence. It’s ever been the case. And it ever will be the case. Curiously, the republican form of government protects the people’s rights by making sure the people themselves don’t have the freedom to dispose of them. The sovereignty and independent power of the states is then of great importance to the function of any republic—and the protection of individual private citizens’ rights.

And that is the central danger of purely popular elections of all national representatives. Another debater of the national Constitution, Roger Sherman, explained that a popular election of national representatives would in effect abolish state governments:

If it were in view to abolish the State Governments the elections ought to be by the people. If the State Governments are to be continued, it is necessary in order to preserve harmony between the National & State Governments that the elections to the former should be made by the latter. The right of participating in the National Government would be sufficiently secured to the people by their election of the State Legislatures.

In other words, if we want to maintain the protections provided by the strength of the independent states, state legislatures must be relied upon to represent their people in choosing representatives in the national government. The Electoral College, non-direct election of Senators, and state sovereignty/independence were but a few ways the original Constitution attempted to prevent a slide into pure democracy.

Judge Edmund Pendleton, during the Virginia Ratification Debates, explained to Patrick Henry why his fears of the tyranny of the national government through the democratic consolidation of “the people” were unjustified:

But it [the government proposed in the Constitution] is represented [by Patrick Henry] to be a consolidated government, annihilating that of the states—a consolidated government, which so extensive a territory as the United States cannot admit of, without terminating in despotism. If this be such a government, I will confess, with my worthy friend, that it is inadmissible over such a territory as this country. Let us consider whether it be such a government or not. I should understand a consolidated government to be that which should have the sole and exclusive power, legislative, executive, and judicial, without any limitation. Is this such a government? Or can it be changed to such a one? It only extends to the general purposes of the Union. It does not intermeddle with the local, particular affairs of the states.

Sorry, Judge Pendleton. But it has in fact been “changed to such a one”! The War Between the States finalized the supremacy of the national government over the states, the 17th Amendment gave individual citizens the responsibility to vote directly for their Senators, and now the NPV compact aims to effectively destroy the Electoral College (without even bothering to amend the Constitution).

No doubt the Electoral College has already been weakened. The fact is that the winner-take-all method of selection at the state level is directly destructive to the Founder’s original intent. Electoral votes should be given per elector. Meaning that each state should be allowed to give votes for all the candidates in proportion to the varied support within its various counties. Rather than giving all the electoral votes to the most “popular” candidate in the state, each local elector should cast his vote in accordance to the opinion of his local constituency (whether the majority of citizens in that state agree or not).

But this would give back power to the lower population counties in rural communities. This would not be in the best interest of the status quo, especially not the demagogues at the top of the two-party system. Consider that a return to the original structure of the Electoral College would mean that the highly populated Manhattan County would have the same weight of electoral power as a sparsely populated farm county in upper New York.

People think that isn’t fair. But it is. Because political government should be local, and it should be connected to the land it governs. Why should the vast and liberal population of New York City be able to dictate how every other county of New York operates?

But in the end, we are probably already too far gone.  The NPV compact is just the latest nail in the coffin. And to be honest, there aren’t many nails left.

106 responses

  1. NPV is the worst thing to happen to this nation.
    If it goes through then all national elections will be determined by the East Coast and the West Coast and all states in between will be governed by who they elect.
    The idea of the EC was to make a candidate be picked by most of the sates.
    Not just by the largest amount of people.
    A majority of states needed to be won not just a majority of people.
    There are different ways to collect enough EC votes.
    With the NPV it will void the minority states and leave them to be ruled by the coastal states.
    This idea was thought up as a way for the Democrat party who has majorities in the major cities of the East coast and West cost to take elections from the majority of states.
    If it goes through there goes our Republic.
    The founders did not want a Democracy.
    Majority rule that way is mob rule.

    • With the current state-by-state winner-take-all system of awarding electoral votes (not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, but later enacted by 48 states), it could only take winning a bare plurality of popular votes in only the 11 most populous states, containing 56% of the population of the United States, for a candidate to win the Presidency with a mere 23% of the nation’s votes!

      The National Popular Vote bill would end the disproportionate attention and influence of the “mob” in the current handful of closely divided battleground states, such as Ohio and Florida, while the “mobs” of the vast majority of states are ignored.

      9 states determined the 2012 election.

      10 of the original 13 states are politically irrelevant in presidential campaigns now. They aren’t polled or visited. Candidates do not bother to advertise or organize in their state.

      24 of the 27 lowest population states, that are non-competitive are ignored, in presidential elections.

      4 out of 5 Americans were ignored in the 2012 presidential election. After being nominated, Obama visited just eight closely divided battleground states, and Romney visited only 10. These 10 states accounted for 98% of the $940 million spent on campaign advertising.

    • A STRONG case could be made that this country would be FAR better off if the East & West coast states determined national elections.

        • Rick Perry refused to accept money to expand Medicaid. That ideological move will cost lives and increase the state’s debt.

          Both senators Cornyn and Cruz are proud of the fact that they’ve refrained from giving the working poor health insurance. If someone in a poor family is sick, it’s better to quit their jobs and go on welfare. Texans will foot the hospital bills and the incomes of welfare recipients. That’s “fiscal conservatism” for you.

          • No person was ever denied healthcare in a life or death situation and still would not be. People need to be responsible for their own care-if they can afford a cell phone-they can pay to go to the dr.

          • That’s the point. These people go into the emergency room which cost much more $$

          • Perry refused to take part in an underfunded federal program that could bankrupt his state.

          • Perry refused for 3 reasons 1,2 & ^$@* (I forgot, Perry can’t count to 3)!!!!!

          • CA’s “massive surplus” was less than 1% of 2014 spending. It will be gone shortly.

          • Gov Brown is using cash-based budgeting to underreport the cost of an employee benefit — retiree health care — by $3 billion. The governor could have chosen to report the expense at its full size, but to do that under cash-based budgeting, he would have had to actually contribute $3 billion in cash to a retiree health-care trust fund.

            That’s exactly what governors are supposed to do. Retiree health-care expenses, like pensions, are supposed to be pre-funded in order to protect future generations from having to pick up an earlier generation’s costs. But Brown chose not to do so, making his budget look rosier than it is. This shortchanges future generations, which will have less money for their own services because they will have to pay off the skipped costs.

            Businesses aren’t permitted to use cash-based budgeting. Instead, they must accrue expenses whether paid or not. During Brown’s current term in office, his budgets will ignore more than $12 billion in retiree health-care costs.

        • The only things that matter happen on the east & west coast. The fly over states are just along for the ride

          • Bobby doesn’t eat, you see. He is an avatar made by some poor fool who thinks that (s)he knows what is best for the country. Having never payed a payroll, nor wondered where the money would come from with all the new taxes that are completely undeserved, Poor Booby from NYC is as inept as Bloomberg. A shining example why the worthless never should have been given the vote.

      • A much better case can be made for totally ignoring all states’ votes that are dependent upon Federal Handouts. Military bases should NOT be used in this formula. This removes California, New Your, Michigan, and Illinois from the voting pool. Nobody should be allowed to vote themselves anybody else’s money either. Those on welfare should lose their voting rights permanently. Not go around on yellow school buses and vote in every district around.

    • The Founders specifically said they wanted a Republican form of government embodied in the Electoral College.

      • The Constitution initially focused on land owners being the only Americans who could vote & be represented. The Constitution is a fluid document by nature of its amendments, one being that gave women the right to vote. That was in the early 20th Century & most women did not own property.

  2. It takes 270 electoral votes to win.

    The Founding Fathers in the Constitution did not require states to allow their citizens to vote for president, much less award all their electoral votes based upon the vote of their citizens.

    The National Popular Vote bill would guarantee at least 270 Electoral College votes and the presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in the country. It does not abolish the Electoral College. Enacting states would award all their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote.

    No voter would be disenfranchised anywhere.

    Unable to agree on any particular method, the Founding Fathers left the choice of method for selecting presidential electors exclusively to the states by adopting the language contained in section 1 of Article II of the U.S. Constitution–

    “Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors . . .”

    The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly characterized the authority of the
    state legislatures over the manner of awarding their electoral votes as “plenary” and “exclusive.”

    The National Popular Vote bill would replace state winner-take-all laws that award all of a state’s electoral votes to the candidate who get the most popular votes in each separate state (not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, but later enacted by 48 states).

    The bill preserves the constitutionally mandated Electoral College and state control of elections. It ensures that every voter is equal, every voter will matter, in every state, in every presidential election, and the candidate with the most votes wins, as in virtually every other election in the country.

    Under National Popular Vote, every voter, everywhere, would be politically relevant and equal in every presidential election. Every vote would be included in the state counts and national count.

    When states with a combined total of at least 270 electoral votes enact the bill, the candidate with the most popular votes in all 50 states and DC would get the needed majority of 270+ electoral votes from the enacting states. The bill would thus guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes and the majority of Electoral College votes.

    The Republic is not in any danger from National Popular Vote. National Popular Vote has nothing to do with pure democracy.

    Pure democracy is a form of government in which people vote on policy initiatives directly.

    With National Popular Vote, the United States would still be a republic, in which citizens continue to elect the President by a majority of Electoral College votes by states, to represent us and conduct the business of government.

  3. Counties did not originally have the same weight of electoral power in the Electoral College.

    In 1789, in the nation’s first election, the people had no vote for President in most states, only men who owned a substantial amount of property could vote, and only three states used the state-by-state winner-take-all method to award electoral votes.

    With the Electoral College and federalism, the Founding Fathers meant to empower the states to pursue their own interests within the confines of the Constitution. National Popular Vote is an exercise of that power, not an attack upon it.

    States have the responsibility and power to make all of their voters relevant in every presidential election and beyond.

    Federalism concerns the allocation of power between state governments and the national government. The National Popular Vote bill concerns how votes are tallied, not how much power state governments possess relative to the national government. The powers of state governments are neither increased nor decreased based on whether presidential electors are selected along the state boundary lines, or national lines (as with the National Popular Vote).

  4. The Electoral College is a method of preventing people from voting into office, candidates who will give them welfare, and other benefits. That’s why a person had to be a landowner to vote. Non landowners had nothing to lose by voting to raise property taxes to fund the benefits. This was in an era before all the other taxes that we pay to support the benefits.
    To Mr. Minkoff.
    The Constitution that was penned by the Founding Fathers, and eventually ratified by the states, is of no effect today. There are only a few hundred thousand people who are under it’s protections, at this time.
    The demise began with the 14th amendment. It started with making the freed slaves, US citizens. That isn’t a racist comment. If anything derogatory, the facts shows how racist the US government was at that time. The 14th amendment actually was terrible for the freed slaves. It made them slaves to the US government. They were already free before the amendment. It made them citizens of Washington, D.C. and there is no constitution in Washington, D.C.
    We have all been tricked into becoming citizens of Washington, D.C. and as such we have no constitution, except what the US government lets us believe that we have.
    Read the article at this link, and tell me what you think.

  5. Great point made about the war between the states, as THAT was the true end of republican rule. It is ironic that the Republican Party had a hand in the alteration of the very principles (republicanism) it was named after.
    The real problem is that people are too disinterested, distracted or ill-educated to understand these things, so they just ‘go along with’ whatever happens.

  6. The Senate has become less representative of Americans in Congress. More and more of us have moved to the cities. Fewer Americans live in rural areas but they are overrepresented in The Senate. States with low population levels should have only 1 Senator. Getting any constructive change in Washington is like trying to swing a dinosaur by its tail.

    We’re seeing more unrest in rural states. Maybe they should reflect & see how much disproportionate power that they have in Congress.

    • the senate is supposed to represent each state equally, the house of representatives is supposed to represent the people in smaller districts within the state. each state is then equally represented in the senate and the people have equal representation in the have absolutely no idea of how our system of representation is supposed to work.

    • What did you learn in your Jr. High and High School Civics classes? Did you fall asleep or was your teacher not telling the TRUTH? I believe it is time for you to go back to Constitution 101. Try taking a FREE class online at Hillsdale College. I have never ever heard such a bunch of BS in my entire life.

      Repeal the 17th Amendment and we all get the Representation the Original Constitution allowed for. The Senate is the Upper House of the Congress and is only allowed TWO Senators as they were supposed to be the State’s Representatives in the Federal Government, Not directly Elected but, Appointed by the State’s Legislatures.

      The House of Representatives, the Lower House, is the Direct Representatives of the People in each State and is apportioned by Population in Each State.

      The Electoral College is the Constitutional way the Chief Executive is Elected.

      The Electoral College is a process, not a place. The founding fathers established it in theConstitution as a compromise between election of the President by a vote in Congress and election of the President by a popular vote of qualified citizens.

      The Electoral College process consists of the selection of the electors, the meeting of the electors where they vote for President and Vice President, and the counting of the electoral votes by Congress.

      The Electoral College consists of 538 electors. A majority of 270 electoral votes is required to elect the President. Your state’s entitled allotment of electors equals the number of members in its Congressional delegation: one for each member in the House of Representatives plus two for your Senators. Read more about the allocation of electoral votes.

      Under the 23rd Amendment of the Constitution, the District of Columbia is allocated 3 electors and treated like a state for purposes of the Electoral College. For this reason, in the following discussion, the word “state” also refers to the District of Columbia.

      Each candidate running for President in your state has his or her own group of electors. The electors are generally chosen by the candidate’s political party, but state laws vary on how the electors are selected and what their responsibilities are. Read more about thequalifications of the Electors and restrictions on who the Electors may vote for.

      The presidential election is held every four years on the Tuesday after the first Monday in November. You help choose your state’s electors when you vote for President because when you vote for your candidate you are actually voting for your candidate’s electors.

      Most states have a “winner-take-all” system that awards all electors to the winning presidential candidate. However, Maine and Nebraska each have a variation of “proportional representation.” Read more about the allocation of Electors among the states and try topredict the outcome of the Electoral College vote.

      After the presidential election, your governor prepares a “Certificate of Ascertainment” listing all of the candidates who ran for President in your state along with the names of their respective electors. The Certificate of Ascertainment also declares the winning presidential candidate in your state and shows which electors will represent your state at the meeting of the electors in December of the election year. Your state’s Certificates of Ascertainments are sent to the Congress and the National Archives as part of the official records of the presidential election. See the key dates for the 2012 election and information about the roles and responsibilities of state officials, the Office of the Federal Register and the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), and the Congress in the Electoral College process.

      The meeting of the electors takes place on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December after the presidential election. The electors meet in their respective states, where they cast their votes for President and Vice President on separate ballots. Your state’s electors’ votes are recorded on a “Certificate of Vote,” which is prepared at the meeting by the electors. Your state’s Certificates of Votes are sent to the Congress and the National Archives as part of the official records of the presidential election. See the key dates for the 2012 election and information about the roles and responsibilities of state officials and theCongress in the Electoral College process.

      Each state’s electoral votes are counted in a joint session of Congress on the 6th of January in the year following the meeting of the electors. Members of the House and Senate meet in the House chamber to conduct the official tally of electoral votes. (On December 28, 2012, President Obama signed Pub.L. 112-228, as passed by both houses of Congress, moving the day of the vote count from January 6, 2013 (a Sunday) to January 4, 2013.) See the key dates for the 2012 election and information about the role and responsibilities of Congress in the Electoral College process.

      The Vice President, as President of the Senate, presides over the count and announces the results of the vote. The President of the Senate then declares which persons, if any, have been elected President and Vice President of the United States.

      The President-Elect takes the oath of office and is sworn in as President of the United States on January 20th in the year following the Presidential election.

    • Bad idea Woon The House was supposed to address Public affairs, and the Senate was supposed to address the Private affairs of business in all its forms. It worked well for a long time. Public affairs represented by the House has proportional representation that you like. Small states have few Representatives just as you want, but the Senate has two from each State because they wanted two people of means to pass the laws and regulations governing the private sector of business and landowners. They wanted the business interests of each state to be equally represented. We have a former poor boy in Harry Reid who runs the Senate like its some kind of dirt poor rural grange hall, not the sober House of Congress that is supposed to make American industry run smoothly. Things have gotten absolutely convoluted in Congress and recent polls show that 68% of America now agree that it must be changed back to the Founder’s original intent.

  7. NVP would allow just a dozen or so inner cities to elect the American President from now on. Just think, perpetual BHO’s from now on!

    • With National Popular Vote, every voter would be equal. Candidates would reallocate their time, the money they raise, and their ad buys to no longer ignore 80% of the states and voters.

      16% of Americans live in rural areas.

      With National Popular Vote, big cities would not get all of candidates’ attention, much less control the outcome.

      The population of the top five cities (New York, Los Angeles, Chicago,
      Houston and Philadelphia) is only 6% of the population of the United States and the population of the top 50 cities (going as far down as Arlington, TX) is only 15% of the population of the United States.

      Suburbs and exurbs often vote Republican.

      • You are either criminally naive or a Demoncrap myrmidon. Look at your own facts. That 6% of the welfare dependent population would control national elections in this country from now on. When they finish establishing their political control machine, there will be NO minority parties. No dissenting vote, no opposition. Only “big brother? You think every voter would be equal? With rampant voter fraud, that’s not even close to the case now! The middle class vote will cease to exist and welfare deadbeats will be in control ’till we have another revolution. Then we will have genuine fascism or worse. Get a clue!

          • Because the two ideologies of socialism versus capitalism is evenly split between both parties about 40% each. The undecideds are about 20% of those who usually vote and they tilted toward Romney in the last election. The difference was the 6 or 7% of the crazy or neurotic voters who seldom vote who were told that Obama was going to give them more free stuff. Obama won by one (1) percentage point due to the crazy vote. We have a record number of people on SS disability, a record number of people getting Food Stamps, and a record number of people getting unemployment benefits for an unprecedented length of time. Obama was voted in by a small group of people who don’t pay taxes yet get to vote for people promising to spend more public monies to give them free stuff. This is why we have record debt and are on the brink of economic collapse.

          • You REALLY need to spend a few more years in the 3rd grade & learn math! Obama got 332 (62%) of the EC vote & Romney got 206 (38%) of the EC votes. Obama buried Romney in a 24 point LANDSLIDE! This “small group of people that don’t pay taxes) that voted in Obama happen to live in wealthiest states AND wealthiest counties in the country. Open you eyes & look at the states Romney carried. The poorest most uneducated states in the country!

          • In the popular vote Obama beat Romney by 1.2 % more of the vote. Yes Obama won the election. The vote fraud in all the swing states has been aptly covered and was this vote fraud that caused the disparity in the Electoral College. The Ohio vote fraud court of inquiry shows a video of a programmer who testified about a program he wrote that is easily entered into both brands of voting machines – Diebold and the other one. His testimony in an Ohio court of inquiry about this has been seen by millions on YouTube. He lives in Florida, but the program has been traced to Florida, Mississippi, West Texas (El Paso County), Nevada, and Ohio. Florida, Ohio, Nevada and Mississippi, all shifted the EC to Obama who was losing in the polls for months before the election. Look it up on YouTube – search “Ohio court of inquiry voting fraud.” and you should find it. Fraud and the crazy and lazy voters helped to have us suffer another four years of this gross incompetent. This fall there will be Republican poll watchers to look for machine vote changing, and if it occurs they will file court orders to invalidate any county elections where it occurs that same night. God help any Dems who try and keep them out!

          • Because that 6% is concentrated in our inner cities. When they win the popular vote there, they win the entire state. Those states being the most populous give them the majority popular vote. That minority of deadbeat welfare voters then control all elections from then on.

        • Once again I hear about this “rampant voter fraud” & of course not a single shred of evidence to back up your claim. You people just think if you keep repeating something over & over it becomes true & the sad part to the uneducated low information voters in the tea party they believe it!

          • La Boob I have already told you to go to YouTube and look up Ohio voting machine fraud hearings. They held a hearing and its all there. EVERYTHING is put on YouTube. You dissed YouTube the last time I told where you to go as if YouTube is a faulty source. EVERYTHING is now put on YouTube. Educate your ignorant self.

          • Go to you tube & look up flying saucers or Elvis sightings & you’ll find them too! Voting machines are different then inperson voter fraud & it was Republican Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted’s office and ES&S, the nation’s largest e-voting system manufacturer that tried to rig the election.

          • I said EVERYTHING is put on YouTube and you prove my point. The proof I told you to look for is from a state court of inquiry not a conspiracy theorist’s wet dream. Diebold machines were also rigged and the Diebold brothers are two of the biggest contributors to the Democrat Party. These were two presidential elections in a row that these two manufacturer’s machines have been used to defraud the nation.

          • Better yet go to the official Ohio records for the 2012 elections. I bet you will be surprised.
            Anybody can put anything they want on YouTube.

          • It was video from that court of inquiry Fred. Get your head out of your a$$ and go look for yourself.

          • Not a “single shred of evidence”? How about 110% turnout in several dem controlled precincts in PA? More dem votes that registered voters? Huh stupid?

            Here’s another:

            An elections audit that reveals thousands of cases of voter fraud. The audit was conducted in North Carolina by Elections Director Kim Strauch and was then presented

            to the Joint Legislative Elections Oversight Committee. They were able to obtain voting records from 28 states to help with their audit.

            The audit found:

            “81 voters have a voter history later than the date of their death. The audit further identified 13,416 deceased voters on voter rolls in Oct. 13.”

            “The audit showed 155,692 registered North Carolina voters whose first and last names, dates of birth and last four digits of their Social Security number match

            those of voters registered in other states, but who most recently registered or voted elsewhere.”

            “A total of 35,750 voters with matching first and last names and date of birth were registered in North Carolina and another state, and voted in both states in

            the 2012 general election.”

            “Another 765 voters with an exact match of first and last name, date of birth and last four digits of their Social Security number were registered and voted in

            the 2012 general election in North Carolina and another state.”


          • You’re a real moron. Crosscheck has yet to produce a single case of voter fraud. All they proved is people have the same name & birthdate or that dead people are still on voter rolls. Teabagger math is 1+1=3 this notion of 110% turnout is another absurd teabagger myth

          • No Bob. Those people were not automatically carried over. They were reenrolled. Factcheck and Snopes are two Democrat websites who create fraudulent results to cover the fraud. Nice try LaBoob. You changed your name to hide your stupidity. Did you go to YouTube or is your head still deeply stuck in your backside?

          • Yes and the votes from St Lucie County Florida showed 144% of the voting rolls voted for Obama. Not a single vote for Romney. That is impossible. Six or seven counties were almost as bad, but St. Lucie County was the worst. Lucy you got some ‘splainin to do.

      • Every voter is not equal toto. They are equal to pull a lever or push a button, but far from equal in rationality or intelligence to make an informed vote. How do you think Obama got a second term after harming this country so badly in his first term with record debt, violations of the Constitution every week, dictatorial executive orders taking away rights, and breaking not only every one of his campaign promises, but also breaking his Oath of Office some 76 times as documented by Ted Cruz just last week? It all due to irrational voters who can’t even identify the Vice President who reelected him.

  8. Can someone explain why the GOP is complaining? As it sits the Dems start with over 270 EC votes in hard core blue states that aren’t even in play! The Dem’s have a LOCK on the EC & the ONLY the GOP will EVER win a general election is change the rules. Why the Dem’s support this is beyond me.

    • Dems could have changed the filibuster rules back in 2009. The 60-vote rule doesn’t work either. Why keep it? The reasons that they gave us were made up.

      I suspect the a group of Dems. from red states were afraid to vote on selected bills. The most recent had to do with background checks on purchasing guns. Most of The Senate must owned by the NRA.

  9. This is crazy, it will allow the President to be elected by the people in the major cities of the country. It will lock out the vote of most western and small states. Is this what we want? It will allow the Democrats to always be the party of the President. I prefer to retain the EC.

    • National Popular Vote retains the Electoral College.

      16% of Americans live in rural areas.

      With National Popular Vote, big cities would not get all of candidates’ attention, much less control the outcome.

      The population of the top five cities (New York, Los Angeles, Chicago,
      Houston and Philadelphia) is only 6% of the population of the United States and the population of the top 50 cities (going as far down as Arlington, TX) is only 15% of the population of the United States.

      Suburbs and exurbs often vote Republican.

      Now 80% of us are just spectators to presidential elections. We are taken for granted or written off.

      National Popular Vote would give a voice to the minority party voters in each state. Now their votes are counted only for the candidate they did not vote for. Now they don’t matter to their candidate.
      In 2012, 56,256,178 (44%) of the 128,954,498 voters had their vote diverted by the winner-take-all rule to a candidate they opposed (namely, their state’s first-place candidate).

      And now votes, beyond the one needed to get the most votes in the state, for winning in a state are wasted and don’t matter to candidates. Utah (5
      electoral votes) alone generated a margin of 385,000 “wasted” votes for Bush in 2004. 8 small western states, with less than a third of California’s population, provided Bush with a bigger margin (1,283,076) than California provided Kerry (1,235,659).

      Under National Popular Vote, every voter, everywhere, would be politically relevant and equal in every presidential election. Every vote would be included in the state counts and national count.

      The candidate with the most popular votes in all 50 states and DC would get the needed majority of 270+ electoral votes from the enacting states. The bill would thus guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes and the majority of Electoral College votes.

      • The Electoral College was instituted by law before the election of 1804 because of the concentration of population in certain states. Since its inception, only one election was won by a candidate with fewer popular votes. That election was the Bush/Gore election which was dominated by recounts and voter fraud and recounts stopped by the Supreme Court due to Democratic Party political interference. Rather then the elimination of the Electoral College, I would rather see a national picture voter ID law. This would have more of a beneficial effect on elections but is being stonewalled by the Democratic Party.

        • The Electoral College was established in the U.S. Constitution.

          National Popular Vote does not eliminate the Electoral College.

          Because of the state-by-state winner-take-all electoral votes laws (i.e., awarding all of a state’s electoral votes to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in each state) in 48 states, a candidate can win the Presidency without winning the most popular votes nationwide. This has occurred in 4 of the nation’s 57 (1 in 14 = 7%) presidential elections. The precariousness of the
          current state-by-state winner-take-all system of awarding electoral votes is highlighted by the fact that a shift of a few thousand voters in one or two states would have elected the second-place candidate in 4 of the 15 presidential elections since World War II. Near misses are now frequently common. There have been 7 consecutive non-landslide presidential elections (1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, and 2012). 537 popular votes won Florida and the White House for Bush in 2000 despite Gore’s lead of 537,179 (1,000 times more) popular votes nationwide. A shift of 60,000 voters in Ohio in 2004
          would have defeated President Bush despite his nationwide lead of over 3 million votes. In 2012, a shift of 214,733 popular votes in four states would have elected Mitt Romney, despite President Obama’s nationwide lead of 4,966,945 votes.

          The U.S. Supreme Court has made it clear that the states are expected to make their “final determination” six days before the Electoral College meets on the day set by federal law as the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December. The U.S. Supreme Court in Bush v. Gore effectively treated the “safe harbor” date as a deadline for a state’s “final determination” of its presidential election results. The Court ruled (on December 12, 2000) that insufficient time remained to conduct a constitutional recount before the meeting of the Electoral College scheduled for December 18, 2000. Because there was
          insufficient time for a constitutional recount, Bush’s 537-vote plurality that had already been certified under terms of the Florida election code was allowed to stand.

          • Forget about the hanging chads and the multiple handling of the ballots that kept Gore close. Bush won that election. Florida has not a had a fair election in a very long time. Gross voting fraud in the western counties epitomized by St. Lucie County in the last two elections shows the National Guard should be brought in to police each precinct in that state during election time.

          • You uneducated morons believe that but its been proven not true but don’t let facts get in the way of your illusions

          • You are full of shit! Florida is the land of voter corruption. The unions outright lie to its people. Florida is a right to work state. I got out of my union and saved the money. Voer ID is already here. The demoRats refuse to let us use it. No ID, no vote. Very simple. Welfare trash show ID every time they buy anything, get anything, or are given anything. Everybody has ID. Use it.

        • I agree-they don’t want this enforced because it would keep people from voting more than once-eliminate illegals voting and stop dead people from voting too.

      • Sorry, you have things skewed there. The demoRats are for this idea. And you don’t have valid numbers to figure out where the problem lies. The rest of the country is sick and tired of paying for libturds, (centered in large parasitic cities)the endless support given them, the illegals, (who are given cards with written instructions on voting demoRat), and the mentally infirmed who are dragged out to vote with names written on the backs of their hands. I have explained how corrupt the system is here in Pittsburgh. DemoRat teachers used to be given the day off with pay to work the polls. I had to switch to the demoRat party to become a teacher here.

    • Well, it sounds like a good idea to me! Country bumpkins aren’t known for their intelligence. Take a look at the red states & what do you see? The poorest most uneducated states in the country!

        • Actually the GOP should be THRILLED over this news. The Dem’s have a LOCK on the EC as they start with OVER 270 EC votes in hard core blue states that aren’t even in play. Had Mittens carried EVERY “battle ground” state (OH, FL, VA & NC) he STILL would have LOST! Add to the fact that the GOP is in a demographic death spiral in which AZ, GA & even TX could turn blue & their problem becomes obvious.

          • An easy way to solve this problem would be to require you not be on the dole if you want to vote. After all-receiving money from the gov is a conflict of interest. Non property owning people should not be allowed to vote on property tax issues either.

          • It’s a tea party myth that Obama voters on on the dole. Obama carried the almost every rich state & county

          • Well when voters on the dole don’t have work to interfere with their day they are sure to get to the polls to keep their Obamabucks coming.

      • You also see that those country bumpkins know how to live within their means. Something California has not figured out.

        • California has a bigger population and it has its share of fires and drought. That makes it more costly to run. Imagine a tornado in the heart of San Francisco compared to a small town in Nebraska. Disasters in heavily populated states kill more Americans and ruin more infrastructure.

          • A tornado in the Heart of Frisco???? Now rhat’s the best idea YET——–barring maybe a major quake in the San Andreas

          • keep feeding them the regular share of drugs and abortions, they’ll take care of themselves’

          • The fires in California have damages less that 500 homes out of over 10 million. Tornados in Nebraska damaged 100 homes out of a million. The ratios are the same.
            Disasters in heavily populated states are spread over more people so the per capita cost is the same or less than small states.

          • The difference is in cost. Those 500 homes in California are worth more then the million homes in Nebraska!! You hear it all the time on TV. A tornado wrecks havoc in 3 counties across Oklahoma or Kansas & does $100 worth of damage!

          • Why should the government pay anything to rebuild those homes?
            If the owners do not think their home is worth insuring I do not think it is worth rebuilding.

          • Those 500 homes are ‘worth more’ to who? Not me. Why are those fires raging out of control? Because proper forest maintanence is illegal. Firebreaks, clearing of detrius from the forest floor, and proper cutting used to keep the forests safe. Now in addition to mismanaging the forests, the libturds have made it legal to build in unsafe areas. When the inevitable happens there, we get stuck paying for the libturd damage there. If you want a seaside house, live on a boat. If you build a house that hangs over a cliff, expect it to fall. We shouldn’t reimburse for this.

          • Red States are the producers and source of natural resources while most Blue enclaves are the financial office areas. In a very real sense Red states end up transporting the vast amount of their taxable revenue to the Blue enclaves to actually act as middle men and collect the money in sales. Along with the actual tax money.

            Welfare caseloads per capita: Top five per capita – DC, Guam, Rhode Island, Tenn. and California.

          • Red states receive more $ from DC then they send in. Blue states send in more $ to DC then they receive. That’s the bottom line.

          • ARCO made $ billions from the oil they produced in Alaska. How much did they pay in Federal taxes from Alaska?
            Their Federal taxes were paid from their California headquarters.

          • Remove the military bases from that equation and you are busted! Go home. Pay your taxes.

      • Yes and all the people in the inner big cities living 30 people to a tenement and standing in soup kitchen lines are paragons of thought and culture.

          • The county in a Red state is worth far more than that nasty closet called a condo in Stench City. Manhattan is a joke. The wage slaves that live there are sad people. I had to listen to one of those wet dream pirates visiting here, brag about never learning to drive. He needed to go someplace and for some pathetic reason called me for help. I told him that choices have consequences. Go back to New York by Greyhound. Don’t bother me for help. He wasn’t my friend.

  10. All I can say on this subject is that the dirty con artist politicians on the left, wouldn’t be doing this if it wasn’t to their benefit….. They never do a thing unless is gives them big pay back, so be prepared to lose all the elections from here on out if they pull this off….
    Oh, I also include most of the cons on the right!!

  11. I agree that this is a horrible idea, but we all live under the despotism of the east and west coasts now. I say give the left both coasts, we get the flyover states and the gulf. BUT, we’re gonna build a really big fence to keep the leftists out when they start starving to death because they’ve outlawed farming, ranching, killing animals, watering trees, burning coal, etc…..

  12. Michael,
    Consider this. Twenty-five percent (25%) of every population on the planet is certifiably nuts. The next twenty-five percent (the third tier) is seriously neurotic. This leaves the top half of the human race competent to do anything. The third tier can be be helped by various therapies and training. The bottom 25% either needs to be interred in mental health facilities or put on meds and checked they are taking them. This bottom half currently has the right to vote. Do you really want the loony toons and the Nervous Nells to go in and DIRECTLY vote for the highest chair in the world??? Look what happened when the uniformed and the rest of the great masses voted in the last two elections. The bottom half collectively chose the worst possible candidate, one who had no management experience or training. The results of that has been predictable. The economy teeters on the brink of collapse, the Pax Americana that has kept the world from WWIII has been abandoned, and international relations have not been this bad since the last world war. This is why the Founders wanted the Electoral College.

  13. What about the popular vote in The Senate? Today, a 60-vote win is nearly impossible. Why can’t it be 51 votes wins? The red states already have the advantage in the number of Senators over the huge populations represented by the same number of Democratic Senators. Filibusters are being used to death and nothing gets done as a result. Filibusters are supposed to be reserved for huge issues like war, violation of human rights, widespread discrimination and matters of life and death.

    • Then tell Harry Reid to recall the Nuclear Option and set the Senate back to historical use. The Senate is so out of control with Harry Reid at the helm that NOTHING can ever get done the Correct way while he is in the Leadership position.

    • TO: woonsocket
      That’s the beauty of the system. America was not set up to be a democracy (majority rules) it was set up to be a Republic (Article IV section 4) where the people are represented by elected representatives. The founders were fully aware of what the history of democracies was. Democracies have never survived for very long because a majority (50.1%)usually makes unrealistic demands of the minority (49.9%).
      Example; you are a working member of the minority and the non-working majority has decided you need to pay more in taxes to support their desires. After a few times of this happening you decide not to work either and become part of the majority and live off the minority. Soon millions of fellow workers decide to do the same thing and now the minority no longer exists. Everyone is on welfare and no one is working. So the government must take action and announces that Hugo Chavez will be in charge of work groups and everyone will be required to work for their keep. So woonsocket you have become instrumental in the destruction of America and the creation of the United Socialist States of America. Aren’t you proud of yourself?

  14. This quote is from Obama from about a week ago in the Fox News daily email:
    That’s probably the only way to beat Ben Sasse – The Hill:
    “President Obama told attendees at a high-dollar Manhattan fundraiser Wednesday night that the Democratic Party would be in better shape if he ‘could just get a million surplus votes in Brooklyn’ and move them to Nebraska, where Tea Party conservatives scored a major win in Tuesday’s primary.”

    This is exactly the purpose of the National Popular Vote. In a figurative sense, it electronically reallocates votes from major Dem strongholds like Brooklyn to Nebraska and all across the entire country and overwhelms all other locations. It eliminates regional effects in presidential elections by just going for the single popular vote.

    If Dems had not calculated the NPV to be a good thing for them, George Soros would not be backing it.

  15. NPV is a stupid idea. An old idea. If the morons had studied history they would know it is a stupid idea. It will be MOB rule.

  16. I’m sure most Americans can see what is happening here. The idea that the majority should rule has been tried numerous times in history and has never worked to provide freedom to the people. The idea that 50.0001% of the people have a right to determine what the 49.9999% of the people will do will lead to a revolution rather quickly. And that revolution will produce a leader such as Chavez because the needs of the many out weight the needs of the few. Sounds like socialism to me.
    Majority rule has lead to dictators and communism and the deaths of millions of people. Any alert American can see the creeping cancer which is currently on the move to destroy America.
    The idea of a majority rule is great for the majority but hell for the minority. America will fall just as Venezuela did when the majority elected Chavez.

  17. The national elections are supposed to be the result of 50 separate state elections, not a general national election! This is because the states are sovereign, not the federal government. This is just one little move closer to eradicating the states altogether. Mark my words. That is the goal.

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