Is China Set to Be the World’s Greatest Christian Nation?

According to an article in the Telegraph, China is on schedule to comprise the globe’s largest population of Christians within fifteen years:

“By my calculations China is destined to become the largest Christian country in the world very soon,” said Fenggang Yang, a professor of sociology at Purdue University and author of Religion in China: Survival and Revival under Communist Rule. “It is going to be less than a generation. Not many people are prepared for this dramatic change.”

 

China’s Protestant community, which had just one million members in 1949, has already overtaken those of countries more commonly associated with an evangelical boom. . . . Prof Yang . . . believes that number will swell to around 160 million by 2025. That would likely put China ahead even of the United States, which had around 159 million Protestants in 2010 but whose congregations are in decline.

The article’s headline says that China will be the “world’s most Christian nation,” but that isn’t exactly true. China has a huge population, and even if China has more Christians than America does within fifteen years, that wouldn’t necessarily mean that the nation itself is more Christian. 150 million Christians is a serious majority in the United States. But it would account for only about ten percent of China’s massive population.

Nonetheless, the statistics are quite startling. While the United States is abandoning its Christian heritage and republican ((Notice, I did not write “Republican.” If you don’t know the difference, you’re part of the problem.)) roots to dabble more deeply in secularism, socialism, and nanny government, China is shedding its atheist heritage and tyrannical roots to embrace Christianity and the free market.

And while the US is certainly in decline on the world stage, China is on the rise. It seems pretty obvious that China’s prosperity is directly linked to its adoption of Western economic strategies and, now, religion. Is this correlation lost on everyone but me?

206 responses

    • Religion simply cannot survive in this day and age by arguing that empirical evidence is fiction. It cannot argue that the science which has produced huge technical understanding and improvement in quality of life is at the same time fundamentally flawed. THAT is the reason the toxic fairy tale of religion is dying in EVERY advanced country in the west. Christianity will find it’s converts in Africa & the poor regions of China.

      • Just goes to show how foolish we in “advanced countries” are for abandoning our roots, abandoning our Founding Fathers’ principles and abandoning what we know in our gut, in our heart, and in our soul is correct: We were created by a higher power who has given us free will . . . and what are we doing? We are destroying ourselves.

          • Thomas Jefferson to a pair of scissors to the bible & cut out all the parts he thought were BS! What was left was a few pages!!!!

          • Luther did not expose the rampid prostitution on all fronts of the Roman Catholic Church which he personally witnessed. … hmmmm… I wonder why.

          • Hmmmmm. . .like it is not in the Protestant Church. . .sin is in every Church so do not single out. Funny you still didn’t say anything about Luther removing seven books from the Old Testament. After all, Luther did not write the Bible.

      • Considering three of God’s seven gifts are wisdom, knowledge, and understanding it is hard to see how one who believes in God is incompetent, helpless, and miserable. Not to mention His beautiful 12 fruits that are bestowed upon those who walk in His ways. What you talk about are those who follow the fallen one. . .see you got caught up in the lies and deceit. . .now that is being fundamentally flawed.

          • Why do all anti-religious people think we do? You’re very subjective in your comment. Maybe you need a new point-of-view.

          • anti religious??? Are you anti easter bunny, or anti santa claus or anti thor?? No, you’re not. You just don’t believe in any of them. Same as you don’t believe in thousands of other myths & fairytales except for the one chosen fairytale you believe in. But ANYONE that believes the planet is less then 10,000 years old or ANY of the stories in the bible to be true lacks wisdom, knowledge, and understanding

          • It’s fun to believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus is based on the Bishop, St. Nicholas. Why do you clump religion in with fairytailes? Man is foolish to think he is so full of knowledge that he knows more than God. After all, the deadly sin of pride was Lucifer’s fall.

          • There are thousands of gods that people have & still do worship. Why do you think they are all fairytales except the one fairytale that happen to believe to be true?

          • Yes, there are thousands of gods and only one true God. The one true God that created you did so with His qualities that are innate in you. God is so gracious He endowed you with free will that allows you to accept or to reject Him. So you reject and I accept. Nothing wrong in agreeing to disagree.

          • Funny thing is mine is not a fairytale. . .but keep calling it so, doesn’t make your version of the story true. It only proves that you reject the truth and want to make up your own version to keep you happy. Thank God for your free will.

          • Try, just for a moment, to look at Christianity with the same amount of healthy skepticism that you used when approaching the stories of Santa, Joseph Smith and Mohammed. Use your common sense to ask some very simple questions of yourself:

            Is there any physical evidence that Jesus existed? – No. He left no trace. His body “ascended into heaven.” He wrote nothing down. None of his “miracles” left any permanent evidence. There is, literally, nothing.

            Is there any reason to believe that Jesus actually performed these miracles, or that he rose from the dead, or that he ascended into heaven? – There is no more of a reason to believe this than there is to believe that Joseph Smith found the golden plates hidden in New York, or that Mohammed rode on a magical winged horse to heaven. Probably less of a reason, given that the record of Jesus’ life is 2,000 years old, while that of Joseph Smith is less than 200 years old.

            No one (besides little kids) believes in Santa Claus. No one outside the Mormon church believes Joseph Smith’s story. No one outside the Muslim faith believes the story of Mohammed and Gabriel and the winged horse. No one outside the Christian faith believes in Jesus’ divinity, miracles, resurrection, etc.

            Therefore, the question I would ask you to consider right now is simple: Why is it that human beings can detect fairy tales with complete certainty when those fairy tales come from other faiths, but they cannot detect the fairy tales that underpin their own faith? Why do they believe their chosen fairy tale with unrelenting passion and reject the others as nonsense?

          • Prove it. Give us one scientific piece of evidence that proves that there is a god. Do you chalk a Tsunami that kills 250,000 people up to “free will” too, or do you call that an “Act of God” like the insurance companies do?

            There is a Plethora of scientific evidence about the universe we live in, the age of same, and how man evolved from all other living beings, yet people like you reject it, to maintain your incredibly blind faith in vaporware.

            You are stardust, so start thinking like stardust. The universe is much more exciting when it is not dumbed down to something that a cave-man can understand.

          • More assumptions, trying to morph into facts.
            No matter how you misinterpret the evidence, the total collective of knowledge points toward God.
            Simple math alone shows evolution is a statistical impossibility.

          • It is impossible to missinterpret evidence that does not exist. I make no assumptions, that is the work of religion and faith. How does simple mathematics show that evolution is a statistical impossibility? Ive never heard this one before.

          • Please look at some of my posts dealing with statistical probability. I’m not aware of anyone else who has even bothered to answer them, so please give it a try and let me know what you come up with. 🙂

          • The evidence is all around you, L. I don’t need to prove anything, it’s simply a matter of what you choose to believe. As far as that goes there is much more evidence for God than some inconsistent interpretation leading toward molecules-to-man myth.

          • What makes yours real? Please do not use the excuse “It must be real, why would people become martyrs if it wasen’t” That does not make it real, that just makes them willing to die.

          • It also assumes the stories about their deaths are factual. The stories about their deaths could simply be legend.

          • And that is exactly what every religion since the beginning of time has claimed, that theirs is the only one true religion, and theirs is the only one true god. And THIS, has been used as the excuse for killing millions upon millions of human beings, many in the most heinous ways imaginable. Or do you chalk this up to the “free will” of those leading all of the inquisitions which have taken place throughout history?

            When will enough be enough?

          • I agree that religion is a killer, as you state in some of your other posts here.
            That is why God does not care about religion, but relationship. The only way to re-establish a relationship with Him is through faith. Faith in the work of Christ is the only thing that can accomplish this.

          • Say Dude! May I intervene here, you are wasting your time (Casting Gods word before swine). If you argue with stupid, they will win, or at least bring you down to their level. Forest said “Stupid is as stupid does” and He was talking about them. Bless!

          • Thanks for the encouragement, Loyal. I share what I share, not so much to reach the direct recipient (Bob and the others), but to also share with those who simply read along. This way I get to bring out truths that otherwise might not be known or considered by others.
            Keep on posting, Loyal! 🙂

          • Maybe he lumps them in with fairy tales because it is just one more of them? As far as Lucifer goes, he is a fairy tale too so are you trying to prove that there must be a good fairy, because there is a “fallen” fairy? Religion was invented by man to control other men. Why do you think that the leaders of countries were once considered to be divine? This includes Russia, Japan, and Even Great Britain up through the fourteenth century.

            Many of our forefathers were Deists. The majority were most definitely NOT Theists. There is a very major difference between the two.

            Remember, The Bible condoned, or at least accepted slavery. That one single fact makes it a man made book that has some good in it, mixed with a lot of bad.

            “subdue the Earth” are the words of an oppressive tyrant, with no regard for life other than man, not a god. They were therefore derived from a man, not a deity.

          • Well, here is something on TJ. The rest felt pretty much the same. Franklins description of the one catholic mass he attended was actually pretty funny the way he described the incense, the mumbo jumbo, and the mock cannbalism.

            You can read all of their biographies or just google their quotes on religion (Theology)

            Dont confuse religion with God. Most people do. Sorry, too tired to format completely. 1:36AM where I am.

            Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term “Nature’s God” used by deists of the time). With his scientific bent, Jefferson sought to organize his thoughts on religion. He rejected the superstitions and mysticism of Christianity and even went so far as to edit the gospels, removing the miracles and mysticism of Jesus (see The Jefferson Bible) leaving only what he deemed the correct moral philosophy of Jesus.

            Distortions of history occur in the minds of many Christians whenever they see the word “God” embossed in statue or memorial concrete. For example, those who visit the Jefferson Memorial in Washington will read Jefferson’s words engraved: “I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility againstevery from of tyranny over the mind of man.” When they see the word “God” many Christians see this as “proof”of his Christianity without thinking that “God” can have many definitions ranging from nature to supernatural. Yet how many of them realize that this passage aimed at attacking the tyranny of the Christian clergy of Philadelphia, or that Jefferson’s God was not the personal god of Christianity? Those memorial words came from a letter written to Benjamin Rush in 1800 in response to Rush’s warning about the Philadelphia clergy attacking Jefferson (Jefferson was seen as an infidel by his enemies during his election for President). The complete statement reads as follows:

            “The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their opinion, & this is the cause of their printing lying pamphlets against me. . .”

            Jefferson aimed at laissez-faire liberalism in the name of individual freedom, He felt that any form of government control, not only of religion, but of individual mercantilism consisted of tyranny. He thought that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.

          • Your little grey cells which evolved, as your experience increased. They will grow you know if you endeavor to use them more… at reasonale activities.

          • As known by one with even smaller gray cells. . .so, in your family tree are there apes or guppies. . .perhaps both.

          • And you believe in talking snakes. Your first parents took his advice to become smart. You were born evil as a result. Now you burn babies to keep warm. ‘Doesn’t matter to you because your sky daddy allowed his son to be killed to impute your “sins” so you are justified in sinning all you want.

          • Rasputin was the charlatan that seduced the last house of the Russian Czars. Can you show me even one piece of physical evidence that he ever existed? The only evidence of Julius Ceasar’s existence are statues and stories, but we have statues and stories of Santa as well. There are many, many real persons for whom the physical evidence is scarce or nonexistent (such as EVERY pre-Columbian North American). That DOES NOT NEGATE their existence!!

          • No one is trying to make laws or define reality on whether Caesar lived or not. It makes no difference if Caesar lived or not. The same is not true of Jesus. Which makes it more important to determine if Jesus actually lived and is god. But for 2,000 years no one has been able to provide any evidence

          • Laws are not being proposed in the name of Christ either, but rather in keeping with with the whole of Judeo- Christian ethic. There is a HUGE difference.

          • Laws are made based on English common law just like our constitution, based of ethics learned the hard way from group behavior before Christianity was even ever known.

          • Marie, you need to read some of the papers written by the guys who helped frame the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc. You are right that English law had a large part to play, but it goes much deeper than that.

          • … Jefferson, who as a careful historian had made a study of the origin of the maxim [that the common law is inextricably linked with Christianity], challenged such an assertion. He noted that “the common law existed while the Anglo-Saxons were yet pagans, at a time when they had never yet heard the name of Christ pronounced or that such a character existed …. What a conspiracy this, between Church and State.” (Leo Pfeffer, Religion, State, and the Burger Court, Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books, 1984, p. 121.)

            Jefferson wrote voluminously to prove that Christianity was not part of the law of the land and that religion or irreligion was purely a private matter, not cognizable by the state. (Leonard W. Levy, Treason Against God: A History of the Offense of Blasphemy, New York: Schocken Books, 1981, p. 335.)

          • Thank you for the strong comeback to Thessalonianguy, JJ. I know the founders had the most negative aspects of religion in mind. Do you have any interesting links to the topic?

          • Where is the independently verified evidence for your “incorrect” premise?

            The problem here is really the coercion of the “gospels” more so than his existence. If the doctrinal claims are to be supported by “we the people”, then I’m afraid your work is still ahead of you. Our constitution is secular and godless, thank the good unicorns!

          • You can only “believe” in things in which their is no evidence or proof. Once their is proof (as in the case of 2+2=4) your opinion is irrelevant

          • It does not apply, because math is a science, and only deals in fact, not faith. Belief in the Supernatural requires faith, because the supernatural is all in the mind, which, in many people has been manipulated since they were very young. Fortunately, many people grow up, and have the ability to differentiate between that which is supernatural, and that which is real. Unfortunately, many do not.

        • Lol, so you are singling out the creationists who decide what the truth is before the results are in, as in the evil “religious” who were “inspired” to write the word of “God” … why mince words, Thessalonian?

      • LaBoob-ee

        G-d is real. Religion is our attempt to understand reality.
        Science helps to explain how and what.
        Religion helps to explain why…

          • There is only one and therefore no matter where you look into the vast Universe everything you see is similar..

            If there was more than one prime entity then contradictions would become very obvious…

          • Can you explain “Everything in the vast universe is similar”?

            Also: “If there was more than one prime entity then contradictions would become very obvious”

            Thank You.

        • Religion is our attempt to understand reality? What a humungous load of CRAP!

          Religion is a vain attempt to make the supernatural real through repetitive mind control. Why do you think the Muslims do it five times a day and stick their heads in the ground like ostriches?

        • There must be an “atheist sale” in aisle 7…
          They’re coming out of the woodwork!

          Funny how hard it is to use reason with someone who believes we came from a “Big Bang!”

          • Geez, I was thinking the exact same thing about someone who believes that snakes can talk, the earth is a big disk floating on water, man was made from a lump of clay, and woman was made from one of his ribs. Again, did he run out of clay?

          • In your case, ya… I believe in a much more profound Universe and these

            Bible stories aren’t what He is all about. I believe in a Universe that is

            13.7 billion years old and not that of the 6 day Creationists.
            I feel sorry for those who have no faith in the profundity of reality

            and have only an awareness of the material world…

          • Either you just pulled a 180, or I misunderstood you. Yes the Universe is much more incredible than that which is described in the bible. And it all seems to work according to the known laws of physics. If there is a God, he is not he one described in the bible, but then, look who wrote the bible……. Man, with very limited knowledge.

          • My point is the biblical god does not love everyone, even the innocent. What did you just agree to? It is hypocrisy. Not even some babies before they are born are loved by your so-called god…. you are going to spin the tale. I KNOW THE TALE. IT is preposterous. I don’t believe in the biblical god. He is absurd and in fact made up, like so many things evangelicals make-up. If God exists he wouldn’t channel to the evangelicals anyway. Many of them are retarded from notions they are expected to believe and promote.

          • I agreed to the fact that God loves unbelievers anyway, in spite of their hatred and misapplied animosity.

            The fact is that you have been poisoned by doubt and misunderstanding. God does not hate you. He doesn’t hate me. He doesn’t hate anyone. He does, however, respond to how we act. If we accept His truth and love by accepting Christ then we gain freedom from the very bondage you mistakenly ascribe to me/Him. That freedom is available to you at any time. All you have to do is ask Him for it.

            I am currently writing a book about this very subject, which should be coming up for draft revision in the next month or so. I hope that you will check it out because the truth of God’s Word does not change. The power to set people free in Christ time on earth is the same power available to set you free today. I’ll be happy to give you a free book if you’d like one.

            Just let me know! I’ll be praying for you. 🙂

            http://www.truthanchor.com

          • Really? My God does not hate. But read about your biblical “god” Malachi 1:3. He hated Esau before he was born and at the same time loved his twin brother Jacob. So please … say again who hates. Are you listening, Thessalonianguy?

          • You believe that man was made by a supernatural being from clay, and woman from one of his ribs. Is that more believable? Was he/she/it short on clay?

            All life is made of organic matter created at the beginning of the universe. It took Billions of years for life to develop. It’s the time thing that has you stumped. The earth is about 4,540,000,000 years old, the universe about 14,000,000,000. These numbers are hard for a creature with a life expectancy of about 75 years to get their head around. I will grant you that.

          • Clay… hummm?
            A rib… hummmmm?
            Not convinced of the specifics, but I do believe I was created by God… period… No Big Bang or evolution
            from a monkey.

            I don’t believe creationism and evolution are mutually exclusive but I don’t believe my model evolved from
            an ape.

          • Well it is actually a Chimpanzee, but I get your point. What species do you think that we (Humans) came from then? Or do you think that all the development of all the various life forms over a couple of billion years was just a smoke screen to mislead us as to the real origin of man?

            Maybe if we were to realize that we are just the most recent creature in a very long history of development we would treat other species, and even other humans with more respect? Maybe if we realized how precious our relatively very short life is we would be less inclined to take another humans life in the ridiculous wars we are led into by our “Leaders”? Wars that often have a religious underpinning?

            People believe what their ego’s allow them to believe. When you ditch your ego, your mind will open.

            Regarding Clay, and a rib, I was watching a talk show wherein a Muslim Imam corrected the host that referred to the Qur’an as stating that man was created from dirt. He corrected the host by alluding to the intrinsic qualities of clay, as compared to dirt. This Imam was obviously a theological guru that was well versed in Qur’anic scripture.

            If man does not change the way the he thinks, and get rid of the “Multiply and Subdue the earth” attitude that was espoused in the bible, there will be no earth left in a very short time frame.

          • Leijona, not sure of the point you’re trying to make (are you an atheist?) but I don’t believe species “evolve” into new species (ie chimpanzee to human being).

            You make an interesting point by stating “people believe what their egos allow them to believe.” Perhaps that is why humility is so hard to obtain. I accept my limitations and understand the value of experience. I’d like to think I know everything I need to know… but then I learn something new and realize how naive I truly am.

            Maybe we aren’t reading the same Bible, but I don’t see the “multiply and subdue the earth” that you claim. The earth is just a tool, like plants and animals, that we as Christians have been given to survive for our time here.

          • Species evolve to cope with their environment, or they become extinct. They have been doing this for billions of years, it just happens at a rate that we can not understand, because of our very short life span. I do not view the earth as a “Tool” to be used up as we see fit, nor do I think that it was “Given” to Christians by a god to use and abuse until it is used up. Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with the white mans religion. They think that they are the be-all to end all, the pinnacle of creation. So did the other civilizations that are now gone. According to Scientific research, the Earth is about in the middle of its life span, and is capable of lasting about another 3,500,000,000 years. It never will unless we shed the “The earth was made for me” mindset.

            The American Indians had a far superior view of our place on this earth than that which is portrayed in the “Bible” a book which I perceive as a violent text written by violent men, with a few redeeming passages.

          • Ok, Marie… I’m struggling here…
            Read the article and agreed with it 100%.
            You suggest I am pushing for a theocracy in the WH????
            You’re grateful evangelicals kept Romney from winning???

            What side are you on?

      • If what you say is true, then why do the numbers in the Bible that represent animals such as a fox (#36), happen to match their chromosome pairs too? Same with the donkey, camel, etc. Even with man, man was in light #22, when Adam and Eve sinned by having sex with Satan, they received their death sentence. #23 – death – the 23rd happens to be the sex chromosome.

        The adder’s fern (finger of Satan) they use in witchcraft has 1260 chromosomes, 630 pairs. In the Bible the snake in Greek is # 630.

        serpent:

        Omicron = 70
        Phi = 500
        Iota = 10
        Nu = 50
        Total = 630

        God even describes the dinosaur Brontosaurus (wait – that one was a mistake – wrong head 😀 ) in Job 40 ,,. they did not know dinsoaurs existed until early 1800s.

        Yes, people that thought the world was flat and had no Arabic numerals, somehow filled the Bible with animals, gave them numbers, which then match their chromosome pairs, including man.

        Tell me how that was possible?

        Christians might want to read this article to see how close we are to the end, but, I doubt it would do you any good.

        TQO#265
        God’s proof genetics, not creation, serpent, Bible numbers, from a
        fern*01

        • Adam and Eve had Sex with Satan????? And you actually believe this crap????? The dinosaurs existed in the 1800’s ???????

          Do you have to count to be able to breathe, or can you breathe and walk at the same time? How often does your mommy let you out of the closet?

          • You did not answer the question, which was:

            “Why do the numbers in the Bible that represent animal life such as a fox (#36), happen to match their chromosome pairs too?”

            Examples:

            honey bee #32
            fox #36
            lion #38
            bat #44 (evil murderers -or blood thirsty killers )
            donkey #62
            horse #64
            camel #70
            wolf #76
            pigeon #80

            You can easily check these chromosome pairs out on wikipedia and any site that does Bible numerics for the Bible numbers that represent animals in Hebrew (and Greek).

            You did not answer the question because the only way to answer it is to acknowledge creation and a higher power, not evolution, because the Bible was written 4,000+ years ago before electron microscopes.

          • I replied showing you are posting nonsense by not applying the types mentioned in the Bible. When God marked Obama in the forehead with a fly as Lord of the Flies, it was a house fly with #12, not a fruit fly.

          • I did not answer because I did not know. Where in the bible is this information listed? This is very interesting, and it is the first time I ever heard this. Frankly, I did not know that there were numbers to represent animals in the bible.

          • Thanks. If this were true, the creationists would be yelling it from the rooftops. Just one more fairytale, or myth, if you prefer, like The Epic of Gilgamesh, er excuse me, Noah’s Ark. (Take your pick, the original, or the sequel)
            Or now the Movie, starring Russel Crowe.

            I can hear it now. “It must be real, they made a movie about it”!

          • You can go to wiki look at the Hebrew alphabet assign numbers to the letters in order a=1 b=2 as an example. Then go to blueletterbible, look up the word fox in Hebrew, google “hebrew gematria fox” for a picture chart. If you want to make it easier and a quick read, then go to biblenumbersforlife, #22.

            Example, the 6th letter = vau

            If you want a quick study,

            http://biblenumbers.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/gods-truth-in-genetics.pdf

            The reason I use “Fox” as an example, Jesus used it for Herod and what happened to Herod when he exalted himself to a God. It is a bit tedious, but, if you know the word you can figure out the number and if you know the # you can figure out the word.

            What I discovered when researching this is that many major Bible numbers, when converted to hexidecimal either point to the exact opposite meaning or compliment the original one.

            Example decimal #50 = Jubilee convert to hex = #32 fellowship, which is what the Jubilee is.

            When you take the presidents that died in office, take their # and convert it to hex, it tells you about the president.

            example:

            1900 President William McKinley

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_McKinley

            # 25th PAYMENT FOR SIN

            hex$ #19 FAITH

            payment for sin:

            “In fact, Walker had deceived McKinley, telling him that new notes were actually renewals of matured ones. Walker was ruined by the recession; McKinley was called upon for repayment in February 1893.”

            faith:

            Relatives and friends gathered around the dying man’s bed as Ida McKinley sobbed over him, stating that she wanted to go with him. “We are all going, we are all going,” her husband replied. “God’s will be done, not ours.”

            By some accounts, those were his final words; he may also have sung part of his favorite hymn, “Nearer, My God, to Thee”.

          • DUH ! It is the type mentioned in the Bible. When God marked Obama as Lord of the Flies, he used a house fly – 12 chromosome pairs, not a fruit fly. Know what you are taking about, why do you not mention the one with 44? Because it would prove my point.

          • God marked Obama as Lord of the Flies, he used a house fly-12 chromosome pairs…? WTF? This is more pernicious religious nonsense. And you don’t see the danger is these phony prophecies? This is why the terminal decline of your religion is upon you!! Please keep talking.

        • A research published in Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, where the Chromosomal evolution of in the Ophioglossum, which is known as adder’s-tongue, is studied in 12 species. It is found that Ophioglossum has wide variety of chromosome numbers from n=30 in O. eliminatumto n=720 in O. reticulatum. In that report it is suggesting that “extreme selection has been exerted against the majority, and further suggesting that Ophioglossum represents an evolutionary dead end through repeated cycles of polyploidy and is possibly at the verge of extinction.”

          630 is the max number of pairs, but the fern has many variations. Again, you are posting nonsense.

          http://biomysteries.wordpress.com/2013/08/25/largest-chromosome-number-of-ophioglossum/

          • I don’t care if you respond or not. You can stick your fingers in your ears and close your eyes all you want When you post nonsense I will point out that it’s nonsense

          • Ughh! You have to admit that their “authoritative book” has lost so much ground that now they have to make up fictional “science” not even written in their book of bronze age barbarisms to “sound” scientific. I think they realize it is their last gasp at relevance and anything resembling evidence. It’s a peculiar try, but so freaking lame!

          • Not, JJ. That is your fairy tale. He has in fact told you he does not “believe” fairy tales, so to speak.

      • The Book of Hebrews has a verse that reads, “It is appointed for men to die once, and then the judgment”. Jesus loves you, LABobE, and doesn’t desire that you perish. I pray you ask Jesus to be your Lord and Savior and repent before you die, LABobE. If not, I don’t believe you will get far with ‘toxic fairy tale’ as you stand in front of the Judgment Seat of Christ. You believe the Judgment Seat is a fairy tale, I do not. If you’re right, then to dust you shall return with no consequences. But if I’m right, what does that mean for you?

        • There it is, the “What have you got to lose?” routine. You know what I believe? I believe that IF Jesus was there to judge you after you died, he would care more about what you DID while you were alive a lot more than what you BELIEVED. I have read a lot of very nasty comments from so-called religious people on these forums. I take them with a grain of salt, because it has to be hard to come from a position with no basis in fact or reason. It has to be frustrating to work with no supporting data.

          • I don’t need any supporting data as it is called faith. We are saved by belief, by faith, not by good works. But once saved, you want to do good works and serve people.

            Ephesians 2:8-10 New King James Version

            8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

          • Yeah, I get that. Don’t blow your own horn, because you only have the horn through the gifts you have been given by a higher power. Jesus was a wonderful role model. He told us that a higher power resides within each and every one of us. Most people miss this very important point, in my humble opinion.

            Most religions usurp and subdue this individual internal power by calling us original sinners full of shame from the moment of birth. Jesus hated religion, that is why they killed him.

            It is inherent in man to help others. Power and Wealth corrupt mans inherent goodness. Jesus threatened the powerful, wealthy, corrupt Jewish priests, so they had him killed.

          • Belief and action go hand in hand, just as unbelief and action go hand in hand.

            Matt 12:33-37
            “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

          • Here Matthew calls some people evil, then he calls them snakes. SO he is judging them based on his beleifs, and calling them reptiles. And you wonder why guys like him ended up dead?

            If what you say is true, how do you explain all of the scientists that have improved the life of mankind, are thoroughly good, selfless people, yet are Atheists?

            Sorry Thess, That dog don’t hunt

          • He is judging them based on their actions.
            Being good or not isn’t the point. The point is that religion is powerless to change anyone from the inside out. That work can only be accomplished by faith in the finished work of Christ.

          • No fact, no reason, no supporting data. Interesting comments, as there is plenty to go around.
            It is profoundly sad that you have borne the brunt of unkind, hateful and biting remarks from people who profess Christ. That is not how it is supposed to be. Jesus commands His followers to walk in love, not hate, toward all people. 1 Corinthians 13 is the roadmap Christians are called to use in dealing with everyone – even those who oppose themselves. 🙂

      • If there is no God, then why do you care if someone believes in Him or not? Why do you care about anything, then? If what you say is true then you are just a bag of chemicals waiting around for an expiration date.
        The problem, Bob, is that your assumptions are far from the truth. Many people here take time to share with you guys out of concern, because we understand the truth. It is sad that you can’t seem to get past your hatred and arrogance to allow yourself some freedom of thought.
        BTW, I am STILL praying for you. 🙂

        • Because of crimes committed in his name… why elae? Those acts are condoned because those commiitting the crimes are imputed… and I know fully what that means… especially to a reformed Presbyterian. .. stepwise, ultimately it means theocracy with that religion in charge. Not on my watch, Thessalonian. Evangelical Christians have done enough damage to this country.

        • Of course, you can read this online for yourself, but socialism was not around in the days of Christ and the Bible is not an economic text. However, if you read the Bible you will find that individuals were responsible for themselves and rendered onto Caesar what was his, and not what was taken from them to give to everyone else. So maybe the question should be, is socialism compatible with the Bible? For the Bible does say God helps those who help themselves. Doesn’t say anything about those expecting freebies and handouts without doing a thing, not to mention, sloth is a deadly sin.

          • Jesus was very clear that the pursuit of wealth was inimical to the Kingdom of God, that the rich are to be condemned, and that to be a follower of Him means to give one’s money to the poor.

          • Maybe you need to read the Bible. Sin is called out in the Bible whether you want to believe it or not.

          • You cannot take wealth with you whether you believe in Christ or not. We are to assist the poor on our own free will, that is the gift of charity (BTW, I gave more to charitable causes than Joey Biden did and I don’t make anywhere near the money he does. . .how come he’s not spreading the wealth?).. Do you think students would be so free to have their hard-earned grades averaged to ensure the slacker passes the class? Christ still made it clear that we are to provide for ourselves. . slackers are not to be given a free ride to keep them iindebted to a political party.

          • Your convoluted thinking is getting the better of you, Bob.
            1. Jesus never said the pursuit of wealth was evil, it is the love of money which is evil. Unfortunately the two often go hand in hand.
            2. Jesus never said the rich are to be condemned (see the point above). It is when you place greater emphasis on wealth than in following Christ that we get into trouble.
            3. Jesus never said you have to give your money away to follow Him.
            I invite you to quote chapter and verse for any of your assumptions/misunderstandings.

          • Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

            Luke 6:24-25 “woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation. Woe to you who are full now, for you will be hungry. Woe to you who are laughing now, for you will mourn and weep.”

          • Bob, Bob, Bob. You are missing the point, sir. He said this because of rampant materialism. Jesus’ family was rich, and Jesus Himself had things worth much money. The point being made is that you can have money, it’s just bad when money has you. The emphasis is on “COME FOLLOW ME.”
            So, according to the way you have been taught (or misinterpret) this Scripture then we are not allowed to laugh or eat either?
            Please try to get past the surface and look for the principle being taught.

          • How foolish of me to actually believe the bible means what it says!!! I should know that it says what other people mean!!! BTW, where did you get this notion that jesus was “rich”?

          • The author??? We have NO idea who wrote ANY of the gospels or when they were written, ALL we know for sure is they weren’t written by the people that claimed to have wrote them (making them forgeries) & since we have no original copy of ANY gospel we have NOT idea what was even originally written because the oldest copies we have are ALL different!!!

          • You are a funny one indeed. But you’re are entitled to your theory and it’s through the lies and deceit of satan that you believe the way you do. Try earnestly praying and asking for those gifts of wisdom, knowledge, and understanding so you won’t be duped. Forgeries is what satan does to mock God.

          • We have NO IDEA who wrote the gospels. You may think you do but you’re just a typical Christian that know VERY little about their own beliefs. In fact, the Gospels are all anonymous

          • I’m not typical. . .I am a child of the one true God and His Words are divinely inspired. Try looking beyond the ordinary to see the extraordinary. Otherwise, remain being typical. Maybe you should read about the history of the times and how works were authored. We have no idea who wrote a lot of writings. . .nonetheless, they were written.

          • We have NO idea what the words even were because they have been chanced so many times over the years!!!

          • You may have no idea for you choose not to listen or hear. Then by your assertion we have no idea about anything that has changed over the years either. No denying there has been a lot of change, and not for the good.

          • Many religious texts have been written over the centuries. That something gets written hardly is proof of a god.

          • You’ve heard of faith?
            That’s our proof.

            Don’t have it?
            Sorry, that’s your problem.

          • ‘We’ must mean you, Bob. Plenty of people know who wrote the Scriptures (and when they were written), but you have to actually learn about things like that and not just spout nonsense you read on some liberal website.
            It’s called manuscript evidence. Check it out.

          • Manuscript evidence? Not real evidence, “Manuscript Evidence” Read “Who wrote the Bible” by Richard Friedman.

            Point: Nobody knows. basically, anonymous. That is in our world, of course, in yours, who knows. Who’syour favorite author, Tim Lahaye?

          • My favorite Author is God. 🙂
            As for Mr. Friedman, if you look closely you will find inconsistencies in his theory (which is just a continuation of thought from a few centuries ago). People have a right and duty to question validity. Problems arise when people assume things and postulate instead of continue to investigate.

          • Thessa, the true God did not write the bible. He hasn’t wriiten anything yet. WHEN HE DOES … IF HE EVEN EXISTS, it will be pure logic. Evil politicians did your “holy book”. They even admit they are “sinners.”

          • You are quite wrong, Marie.
            “Evil politicians?” I have no idea what you mean.
            We are ALL sinners Marie – from the least to the greatest of us. It is a part of humanity, as surely as blood carries oxygen. That is why Christ came, to die for the ungodly (that’s me, you, and everyone else too).

          • Many of the words that are used in the bible were not even used at the time when it was written. Many of the occasions are made to fit through redaction. This does not, of course render the whole tome false. It simply means the the bible is a collection of stories passed down through time, which have been interpreted and I dare say embellished by hopefully well meaning translators. A translator that is excited about something would have a tendency to embellish what actually happened. We see this every day when witnesses to an event are questioned and they all come up with a different interpretation of events. Our opinions are driven by our entire life experience. None of this limits the importance of the life of Jesus of Nazareth as a spiritual teacher and the message that he left us. I happen to feel the same way about Siddhartha Gautama. Both of these teachers gave us the same message, but only one of them was transformed by religion into the creator of the universe by a very hard to comprehend belief called the trinity, which by the way was a concoction of a man (Tertullian) whose mental status should be questionable to anyone who reads his works.

            You are obviously very comfortable in your faith. That is good. I just wish that we had the other 60 or so gospels that the Bishops at Nicaea decided were irrelevant and so were destroyed. If that was not an overwhelming attempt to steer history, then I do not know what was. I consider their actions as heinous, or more so than what the Taliban did to the ancient statues at Bamiyan in 2001, as if the history of mans quest for historical truth means nothing.

            Perhaps it is not very Christian of me to say so, but that kind of bug should be eradicated, in my opinion.

            As far as evolution goes, I consider it to be fact, and I do not think that it diminishes the importance of Jesus in any way. I do not in any way think that man has reached the pinnacle of his development. It just seems to us that he has because our tenure here on this mortal coil is so unbearably short, at under 100 years. He may unfortunately have that tenure cut short if religion interferes with his spiritual growth toward enlightenment.

            Im sure that you might find my concept of religion hindering spiritual growth and enlightenment as contradictory, but that is what it does.

            Remember, Jesus had a following. He did not establish any religion.

            Have a great day.

          • I’m not sure where you get your information from, but it is clearly flawed. Manuscript evidence for the veracity of Scripture is staggering in it’s abundance. Of course there are forgeries, substitutions, etc. The bulk, however are true and correct direct copies (for the NT). You should also do some investigating into the standards Jews require when making new copies of the OT. It is impressive and admirable, at least.
            You are right when you say our opinions are driven by life experiences, which is why so many people gave up their lives to stand for a Truth they personally knew. It is also why Christians continue to allow themselves to be subject to abuse, ridicule, physical assault and even death for their faith. Once you understand the truth and experience the renewal of the Holy Spirit, nobody can take that from you.

          • Once again your ignorance has made you arrogant. You should stop stating things you’ve just read about, instead of doing the research yourself, Bob.
            There is more evidence of Christ than there is for Julius Caesar.

          • The ONLY evidence of Christ IS the bible!!!! There is NOT a single shred of evidence ANYWHERE else

          • ASK THE AUTHOR????? Nobody even knows who wrote the bible! Please, Please, Please do not tell me it was god, OK? I mean, I think he would have known what a sphere is.

          • From those radio shows where they get old ladies to send in their social security checks while they eat cat food. Sometimes I wish there was a hell, Dante would have a special level for evangelists.

          • You sir are crazy. Jesus came from the poorest part of town, and he was a lowly Tekton, which meant carpenter or handyman. The trade he learned from his father, Joseph. Where do you get your information from? Are you one of those evangelists with the snake skin cowboy boots?

          • You make some strange remarks here;

            1. “The poorest part of town” – what address was that? Perhaps on the ‘other side of the tracks?’

            2. In that part of the world a carpenter was a tradesman, just like a fisher or tailor. There was a steady demand for the skills He learned, which were taught to Him by Joseph. (who was not His Father).

            3. I get my information from the Word of God. If you got your info from it you might actually have something meaningful to say.

            When Christ was born His family was given gifts which included gold, frankincense and myrrh. All these gifts were extremely valuable. How much do you think they left with the family? Do you think the people that gave these gifts to His family just tossed a couple shekels onto the kitchen table before they left?

            Prov 1:7
            The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
            But fools despise wisdom and instruction.
            http://www.truthanchor.com

          • I recently read “The Zealot” it sheds a lot of light on the life and times of Jesus of Nazareth. I do not buy the trip to Bethlehem story. That was fabricated to place Jesus in the birth place of David. There was no census, and the Romans would never do anything as stupid as making people stop work and take a couple of months to travel back to where they were born. Besides, the trip would have killed a pregnant woman.

          • Amazing, a guy that actually knows what Jesus said, even though he, nor any of the people who wrote any of the “Accepted” gospels ever knew him. There is one person that knew what Jesus said, and that is Mary Madelaine, but they destroyed most of her gospel. Everything else is hearsay, and most is made up by Paul.

          • Not so amazing. It’s called R E A D I N G. Try it, you may learn something in the process. Matthew wasn’t an Apostle? WOW, that’s news. John wasn’t an Apostle? Fascinating conclusions. And while Mary may have had a little lamb, I’m pretty sure she never penned Scripture.

            BTW, it’s Mary MAGDALENE, not Mary MADELAINE. Maybe this is a Freudian slip, because the name you use seems close to Madalyn, as in MADALYN MURRAY O’HAIR.
            Very interesting indeed…

          • I never said that John and Matthew were not apostles. Where did you get that from? Their names were used for the purpose of name recognition by the writers of their gospels. They did not write them. That has been established by Biblical experts. According to the experts, approximately 65 gospels were written, but a group of Bishops at the council of Nicaea threw out, or destroyed all the works that THEY felt interfered with their program. Does this sound to you like people that are trying to preserve the truth, or people with an agenda? I have seen Mary’s name spelled in several different ways, but thank you for correcting me on that issue.

            From Wikipedia:

            The Gospel of Mary is an apocryphal book discovered in 1896 in a 5th-century papyrus codex. The codex Papyrus Berolinensis 8502 was purchased in Cairo by German scholar Karl Reinhardt.

            Although the work is popularly known as the Gospel of Mary, it is not canonical nor is it technically classed as a gospel by scholastic consensus. For example, Andrew Bernhard notes in his text-critical edition of non-canonical gospels that “the term ‘gospel’ is used as a label for any written text that is primarily focused on recounting the teachings and/or activities of Jesus during his adult life”.

            True, it is not Canonical. In other words, its not one of the documents that us mere humans were supposed to have access to.

            In spite of this, I would recommend that you read what is left of it, you might be surprised.

          • I thought he told the apostles to sell all that they owned and follow him. Or do you have a different book in your religion? What about the eye of a needle quote? I know the evangelists think its OK to be very wealthy, because most of them get their money be scamming old ladies, so they have to think it is OK, but as far as the bible goes……..

          • Psst, Jesus NEVER wrote anything down! I invite you to explain who wrote what and why anyone should pretend to know what Jesus said or thought. The Jebus interpreters are rife though out history, and many became rich and powerful from it.

          • What an odd and disingenuous response. Many statements are attributed to historical figures without the figure themselves actually writing it down.

            “Et tu, Brute?” is the statement attributed to Ceasar as he was stabbed to death in the senate. So I suppose you’re telling me you don’t believe he said that, just because he didn’t write it down? That’s just one example among millions, but the point is the same. You are willingly ignorant or worse, perverting, twisting and obfuscating things that don’t fit your predetermined agenda.

            Just more proof that your are more interested in resisting the truth than actually learning from it. That is both sad and tragic, but that’s your choice. So be it.

            http://www.truthanchor.com

          • Thank you for realizing my rights. Your example of “Et tu, Brute”, is quite poor, even from you. No one is claiming Ceasar was the son of god and that if don’t believe in him you’ll experience the eternal lake of fire. Also, there is no evidence that this was ever said, and that if Shakespeare

            hadn’t written a play about it, you wouldn’t have used it. Independent sources don’t support “Et tu, Brute” was ever uttered, just like your book of desert fables.

            Once again, more proof you’d rather spew nonsense than learn the “truth”. Which is not sad, it’s predictable. Talk about agendas, I used to be a Christian, I know the drill.

          • The example chosen is exactly what it should be, because I was proving a point. The point I’m making is that many things supposedly said by historic figures are passed down through the ages, Just ask Suetonius. Although he states nobody knows for sure what was said, there were plenty of people around who attributed this saying to Caesar. In fact, you reinforce the point I’m trying to make, which is this;
            If a nondescript saying can make it down through the ages, why can’t some of the most profound teaching of history (given by Christ) make it down through the ages? Hundreds – if not thousands – of people heard the very words Christ uttered and would know if those words were correct or n false as they were relayed – and recorded.

            You state you were a Christian at one point – what happened to you? How can you give up the companionship of God? If you don’t know what I’m talking about when I say companionship (fellowship), then you probably were never truly changed by the Word of God. Unfortunately that kind of misunderstanding happens all too many times.

          • The point isn’t that it “can’t make down through the ages”, the point is that the veracity of the claim has to have at least some independent verification. And more important, no one cares if I believe Shakespeare’s saying, or that this was a factual statement. He wrote fiction, not history. Your book, on the other hand, threatens my “eternal” life with infinite torture if I don’t believe what that inconsistent, corrupt book claims to be “truth”. Profound teachings? Yeah, they are profoundly reprehensible.

            Who were the hundreds of people that heard these words? And where are the independent writings from the same time that corroborate these claims?

            As for my discontinuing companionship with god? That was easy, I used my critical faculties and realized I alone all along. Sorry Thess, I know how convinced you are, however, it is not compelling and too ambiguous for me.

          • I am raly tired so i don’t feel like arguing with you tonight but if you want to chalange me on debate.org on that site i go by Evan White.

          • Acts 2:44-45 says, “[A]ll who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need.”

            Acts 4:32-35 says,

            “Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. . . . There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.”

            That sounds like socialism to me.

          • I would argue with your for i have some good arguements up my sleeve about this subject but its very late if you wanna debate about this on Debate.org my username is Evan White

          • You do realize that you can post when you want? It’s not like we have to be online at the same time to debate here.

          • Good try but you failed. These early church Christians were not forced to give their stuff, they just shared to help the fellow church members that were struggling and had no food on the table. They did it with some little thing you don’t believe in called Free Will. Socialism is when your stuff is taken from you and you own nothing but the gov’t owns everything. And strangely enough, the church was persecuted in lands where Marxism reigned. So also in the book of Luke jesus said to give to ceaster what is ceasers.

          • And the definition of WORDS that they use. So many capitalists don’t want you to know how losses of corporations are socialized, not that that should matter.

          • Just because they did not call it that does not mean that it was not socialism. The Bible was not an economic text? I guess you mean the New Testament.

          • Socialism is a concept that appear way after Jesus’ time on this earth. Socialism is against religion, traditional family, and is not out for the people, but rather, wants the people to become serfs. Doubt very seriously that Christ was a socialist. His people are not serfs. The Bible is taken in its entirety. Why just pull from the New Testament. And it is not an economic text.

          • Again, you are hung up on the term. If it walks like a duck, has a bill, has webbed feet, well you get the idea, maybe.

            “Sell all you have and give everything to the poor” sounds pretty much like “From each according to their abilities, to each according to their need” to me.

            The problem with this concept, whatever you chose to call it, is that some people refuse to learn anything that looks like work, and therefore have no ability, but always have the most need.

            Read Ayn Rand. “Atlas Shrugged”

    • Free Enterprise is very widespread on China already. Free enterprise is the answer. Capitalism, not so much, but due to human greed they are linked.

      China is way more friendly to free enterprise and to entrepreneurial spirit than the US is due to its incredible number of regulations, bureaucracies, and taxes. Lawyers have Destroyed Yankee Ingenuity in the US with frivolous lawsuits.

  1. The only named beneficiaries of the New Covenant is the House of Israel, found today as and among the peoples of White Christendom.

  2. What’s kinda scary is that the Nuns used to tell us that China would rule the world – and now I can see how that will happen.

  3. Whatever percentage of Christians in China’s population will be wonderful in a country in which most of the population are taught that the government is their god. So while China is growing in Christianity, the current administration is wanting the godless demonrat party to be the country’s god. Poor choice if ever there was one.

  4. It never ceases to amaze me how people can manipulate facts by use of figures. The sheer number of Christians in China is dwarfed by the sheer number of non-Christians in China. The percentile will not even come close to 50% for generations, if ever.

    • Just the simple fact that Christianity is flourishing in China is a miracle. Numbers are amazing considering the government wants to be the people’s god.

  5. I think it is linked to the fact that every family there has had to have an abortion, possibly , more than one.Think about how Chriatians believe in an afterlife. There is a link there.

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