Abiotic Oil: Is “Fossil Fuel” a Misnomer?

Wikipedia defines “fossil fuels” as “fuels formed by natural processes such as anaerobic decomposition of buried dead organisms. The age of the organisms and their resulting fossil fuels is typically millions of years, and sometimes exceeds 650 million years.” If this is true, fossil fuels are not being made anymore. This would mean then that oil is a fixed-quantity, non-renewable resource that we are using to depletion. When it’s gone, it’s gone.

But wait. The strangest thing is happening in various oil fields all over the world: they’re filling up again. What? How could that be? Perhaps there is a world of dinosaurs living at the center of the earth and their corpses are floating up through the magma, fossilizing on the way in a dimensionally-compressed time crease and then decomposing into oil. Perhaps Jules Verne was right after all.

Or, perhaps there is another option: abiotic oil production. It could be that oil, coal, and natural gas are incorrectly named “fossil fuels.” There are pockets of people who are beginning to be open to the idea that perhaps oil is not the product of biological decomposition and fossilization over a bajillion years:

In 2008 [Forbes] reported a group of Russian and Ukrainian scientists say that oil and gas don’t come from fossils; they’re synthesized deep within the earth’s mantle by heat, pressure, and other purely chemical means, before gradually rising to the surface. Under the so-called abiotic theory of oil, finding all the energy we need is just a matter of looking beyond the traditional basins where fossils might have accumulated. ((U.S. News & World Report, Abiotic Oil a Theory Worth Exploring))

A little research indicates that more than a few thinkers disagree with the scientific consensus on how oil is formed. Consensus scientists will of course reject these “quacks” as “snake oil salesmen.” (Get it?) You can find out what I think about “consensus science” here. The short version: It is fallacious to appeal to authority or the majority opinion. It doesn’t matter who says or thinks something. It could be right or it could be wrong. Consensus science automatically jumps down your throat if you question “climate change” or “macro-evolution.” And this is one of the main blind spots of the fossil fuel bandwagoners. All alternative theories to oil formation are rejected by the majority opinion in order to protect some of modern man’s more sacred cows. Not for scientific reasons, of course. But because of ideological prejudices.

The majority opinion on fossil fuels is intimately linked to anthropogenic climate change and macro-evolution:

Environmentalists want to believe in the biogenic production of oil because it gives legitimacy to their apocalyptic urgency. If oils are running out, and we can’t get any more, well, we better start investing in green energy. But if abiotic oil theory is correct, then oil is a renewable resource. Uh oh. That means crazy conservative earth-killers can keep polluting poor Mother Earth indefinitely.

And macro-evolutionists just don’t want to give up on their “millions and millions of years.” Indicating, even with facts or data, that oil or other geological formations can be produced over a relatively short span of time totally contradicts their paradigm and they will decry you until they are blue in the face. Never mind the fact that the linear uniformitarian model for geological development doesn’t fit any of the facts, past or present. They will cling to it by faith in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

Truth is truth, and I want to get at it. I’m not saying abiotic oil theory is right. Perhaps the biogenic fuel theory is basically right, but the time frame is way off. It definitely does not take millions of years to fossilize something. It just takes enormous heat and pressure (which the earth’s core has lots of if I remember correctly). I just want the question to be discussed openly. If the “millions of years” fossil fuel theory is correct, just how are these oil fields filling back up? Is really old oil formed tens of millions of years ago seeping up from even deeper in the earth’s core? That doesn’t fit the evidence very well. For one, the new oil, even using their dating methods, is considerably younger. And why is it showing up now? Hasn’t it been around for tens of millions of years? Oh well. Who needs evidence when you’ve got a consensus, right? At least, that’s the song all the geocentrists were singing back in the day while they were dancing around in little epicycles trying to retrofit their failed paradigm to the facts.

Thus, as is often the case, a majority prejudice is parading as proof in order to silence dissent. The “Church” has been condemned by modern “skeptics” ((To my taste, they are not skeptical at all. It amazes me what they’re willing to believe.)) for its superstitious hamstringing of the progress of scientific inquiry. Now those same so-called skeptics resort to the same tactics when they hold the reins of the majority opinion. And the Church is full of hypocrites?

124 responses

  1. Very insightful. Oil as a renewal resource makes much more sense given the ongoing increase in field production we are seeing. It does beg the question as to what causes field production and renewal since some fields fill back up while others don’t. But that isn’t any different than water wells where some refill while others don’t.

    • BobE What “flat earth society”? Don’t you know the idea of people believing in a flat earth comes from a fictional story by Washington Irving from the 19th century? And that the truth is no educated person has believed in a flat earth for at least the last 2,500 years, if not longer?

    • BobE The Bible states, in several places, that the Earth is a  SPHERE, and hangs on nothing!!  And you’re still an idiot.

    • BobE – I have no idea who that society is that you love so much. But fossil fuels, if they are even made from fossils which is part of the article being discussed, then they only take a very short time. Months or a few years and not millions of years as some hypothesize.  Part of the point of the article is that if they oil fields refill in short order, then thinking a fossil fuel takes millions of years to make is a myth.

  2. Scientists may be very good at chemical formulas, calculus and physics equations but for the most part, scientists are lousy at history.  They fail to realize how many scientists have been proven wrong over the centuries and consequently, they allow their own arrogance to fool them into believing ‘they know it all.’  Big mistake.  One fashion statement that will never go out of style – egg on the faces of scientists.

  3. Considering the extreme depths that oil is being found, FAR BELOW any potentially sedimentary, organic deposits, it’s absurd to think that oil is anything other than abiotic!!!!  It’s a gift.  let’s use it!

    • RedMeatState It seems ludicrous to me as well that all these millions of barrels so incredibly deep are from dinosaurs, etc.  I dunno how they’ve gotten away with their fairy tales for so long.

      • SamHII RedMeatState Instead of fairy tales, maybe we should rely on “true scientific method” and use “all the facts to discern the truth.  Some very good points have been made here and if conventional thinking doesn’t fit the facts at hand, then we should be open to new ideas…despite the fact that it will ruffle a few feathers and turn the scientific community upside down.  Bruising a few egos isn’t important and neither is politics.  In true science only with the truth can you move forward…..in spite of closed minds.

        • npigott410 SamHII RedMeatState there are a multitude of things that cannot be  proved “scientifically”… using the Scientific Method.  It’s impossible to observe past events, so conjecture, speculation, and imagination must be applied.  Must be?  It would be nice for science to just admit “we don’t know” when it comes to certain things.  But they seem determined to be able to supply an answer.  I recall one of my science professors telling me that “we have NO PROOF of evolution, absolutely none. BUT WE’RE CERTAIN THAT IT HAPPENED!”
          Only because they refuse to consider any alternative.  The OFF SWITCH has been engaged!!

          “Truth” has no place in “science”…. they will tell you that truth has its place in philosophy and religion.  But you are correct that only truth can move us forward.

        • That’s pretty good; I also heard a teacher say the same thing about having no available proof but he/they were certain it happened…now, all i can say is that man is a fool, because after studying evolution etc. i find that there really is NO proof and anyone who can make a statement like that w/a straight face is as dumb as a screen door on a submarine!!

  4. The concept of “fossil fuel” is bogus and always has been. The basis for the oil we discover is hydrocarbons present in planets and their moons in our solar system where there is a molten core. The dinosaur theory, total BS thus the presence of oil reappearing in formally dry wells. The environmentalist wackos are still positing the fraudulent science of CO2 as detrimental to our planet…………um, last time I looked this planet would be devoid of oxygen processing organisms were it not for CO2. According to atmospheric science, CO2 makes up but one molecule per !00,000 in our atmosphere. Time to stop believing the chicken littles of the world with their infantile  sky is falling agenda and cast their eye of disdain where it really belongs, on our insanely criminal out of control government. Now that’s proof-able and in your face on a daily basis. The sky is falling agenda needs to focus on the fact that our nation is falling under the weight of a tyrannical government headed by pretend ineligible clown!

  5. No oil company has ever successfully found a well using the theory and it is considered pseudoscience on the order of global warming denialism  It originated in the Soviet Union, its major scientific supporters worked in Russia, and it has never gained a following anywhere outside the Soviet Union. Having largely passed with the USSR, it occasionally makes a comeback among less intellectual conservative elements, where it is used as an excuse to continue ignoring the energy crisis of the future. creationists also favour it.

    • BobE 
      Hey BoobE your just basically FOS and your cute little cross in the circle tells us all we need to know about you, supported by your infantile slight when referring to conservatives and creationists. That being said, anytime you want to debate actual real science not BS manmade global warming and your inability to discern the improbability of fossil fuels, given the real science of hydrocarbons, use a mirror, at least it will agree with you! The validated reclamation of oil in previously labeled dormant wells, doesn’t require your anti-religion, non-supportable Darwinian loving slam at creationists. Nor does it demand you flaunt your progressive atheistic world view in a discussion about the science of the origins of petroleum. I suggest you spout your BS at the HuffPo where they have the same pseudo-scientific world view as you! You seem to enjoy your troll role all too much, too bad we’re all on to you!

      • combatvet BobE I take it you’re another “home schooled” moron that believes the planet is 6,000 years old. Am I wrong?

        • BobE combatvet 
          Isn’t ‘moron’ a rather big boy insult for a little blog troll like you. You see, there is nothing I post on here that I wouldn’t say to your little face, nor could you deal with that reality. So your puny hide behind the computer screen insult, is of no moment to me, in fact it would be considered………….foolish! You post on a blog like this knowing that nobody agrees with you nor your baseless facts. So, what do you do, you keep posting your drivel and insult the beliefs of others, to what end.  One other thing, never insult a combat veteran, bad karma! Your the classic example of Einstein’s definition of insanity.

        • combatvet BobE I don’t believe for a second that ANY of you nimwits that claim to be military veterans were EVER bright enough to be in the military (unless you were drafted) in which case I’m sure you got out on a section 8. I’ve actually grown tired of debating science with people that reject basic scientific facts.

        • I do believe we should comfort the feeble minded…BobE is just that!  Feeble minded…let him alone, he is not worth our time!  LOL

        • I was NOT home schooled and I stillbelieve the earth is not millions of years old:  ONLY a “FOOL” would think so….and BobE, youare a “FOOL” , so go on in your foolishness…it fits you!

        • Homer57 Isn’t taliban boobee the one who is always putting down veterans?  You know, the one who thinks the country is supposed to serve him. Isn’t he the same guy who was not man enough to accept responsibility for girls he got in trouble? The same guy who is angry because the North forced the South to give up their slaves? Like we’re going to listen to anything he has to say! Just ignore him.

        • Homer57
          if the if the
          universe is less than 10,000 years old, then all of geology and biology are
          wrong; the speed of light has been wrongly calculated, so Einsteinian physics
          is wrong; the distance and speed of other galaxies has been wrongly calculated,
          meaning that all of astronomy and therefore Newtonian physics are also wrong. Only a TRUE MORON could be lead to believe the planet in 6,000 years old based upon a 2,000 year old book written by anonymous  bronze age goat headers!

        • Look BobE: I did tell you that you need not reply:  Because you actually have nothing to say worth hearing:  I have better things to do and to say then to try to reason w/a man that can’t be reasoned with: and will not consider, there are two sides to every coin and he DOES not KNOW everything, even if he thinks he may!! So, when your apple falls up the tree…tell me how wrong things are!  OK…go take a baby aspirine and be done w/it!

        • Yeah : really…well here it is BobE…I really don’t care that you rant and rave or get on your little insulting tirades and call so many on here, whatever it is you call me/us and act as if you have all the answers, we know better, and You can’t insult me, i’ve been called everything but white and sticks and stones etc…BUT, let me ask you Mr. KNOW it all, have you ever been in the Military,  voluntarily, or otherwise…doubtful:  have you ever done and gone where you were told and did what you were told even when you didn’t want to; or taken orders contrary to what you wanted etc…have you EVER considered that the “SERVICE” you served was for the LIKES or arrogant, know it alls like you who claim to be so smart and yet, from this end, couldn’t pour piss out of a boot w/instructions on the heal.  I don’t need to defend anyone etc BUT when you insult a military service memberwho has done this sort of thing and put their life on the line for the likes of you:  I just want to say one thing:  SHUT that Mouth of yours until you have the right to open it in any fashion detrimental to the ones who you demean w/that “Despicable” attitude!  UNTIL YOU HAVE BEEN THERE…SHUT UP!

        • You KNOW BobE  there is a reason why I must answer; and for the likes of me, i fail to see it, because of your ignorance and arrogance, However;  I have two Reasons, that maybe even you can understand, maybe not, but…no1  The earth can’t be more than 7-10k years old because of The magnetic field…the magnetic field has weakened considerably in the last 35 years…ever heard of Degausssing/Deperming…that’s what a ship has to do from time to time to demagnify the metal ship so as not to have the magnetic compasses go off course and mess up a ships bearings…and they do it less and less since i first joined.  no 2.  Can you imagine this earth w/millions of years of people multiplying as they are today…the population was about 2 billion when i was a child 50 years ago, so….doubling every 20 years or less…you don’t think, you have a brain…use it…just consider you are NOT the brightest light bulb in the pact!!

        • BobE – an excellent comment.  I am at a loss as to what you really think about science.  Are you just being witty in your comments?

  6. Fossil fuels are NOT formed by dead plants and animals:  They are, however formed by …what almost none will believe..they are formed by the fires that burn in hell…the pit of hell is on fire and burns sulfer and that makes the oil form.  It is a sulfar based element…yes it is!  Fossil fuels, if they were made out of the other would run out…but hell fire will never quit burning so…we have OIL…That crock about dead things forming anything but dead things is a crock!  NO anomal or human when they die has that much sulfar in them…that is an “Evoltion” LIE!!

    • Homer57 Are you sure is wasn’t the “oil fairy” going around with a magic wand putting oil in all kinds of crazy places for us to find???

      • BobE Homer57 
        Thanks for clearing up the reason for the reoccurrence of oil in formally dry wells and at the same time outing yourself. It takes a fairy to know one and your obvious familiarity with fairies leads us to the conclusion that you have outed yourself!

        • SharonTaylor BobE Homer57 I’m guessing the smartest thing to come out of your mouth is your mother’s penis!

        • BobE SharonTaylor Homer57 Given that I don’t have a son, you would be wrong. You really are hateful. I feel sorry for you.

        • BobE SharonTaylor Homer57  Apparently, you are fantasizing about your father. Gee Boobie, did he violate you that much?

        • BobE SharonTaylor Homer57 There’s a German phrase that fits you: eine dum anmasender Schweinhunde.

        • and a “PERVERT”Too…who put that trash in your head bobbie…that’s why sites like this get banned etc because of the trash you put out!  STOP IT..OK!

        • That’s a german for you: HIT the nail right on the head: I’d say Schweinhunde”  or the worst thing a german could call anyone or be called…BobE   (talk about plain talk!!)

      • NO Bob, but i am sure you are a FRUIT CAKE, W/the mind of a reprobate!  You can’t think for yourself so you get someone else to do it for you!  P.S. don’t bother to reply, anything you say is just NOT worth listening to, ok!   You are wrong on almost alllll accounts!

  7. P.S. How can OIL be found in miles of rock down in the earth?  Did those animals know they were going to die and decide to dig down miles and miles to make sure we got the oil we needed?  Smart animals huh, and also a crock of CRAP!!

  8. Actually a lot of oil is SO deep, the likelihood of it being dead animals covered by dirt and ice ages is still nil. But the author makes jabs at consensus science that opens further doors, like FREE energy. It turns out this was discovered and has been supressed for over a century. Ayn Rand’s John Galt fiction doesn’t apply here because it’s the very industrialist class (but especially the fossil fuel industry) who have been suppressing. It goes back to JP Morgan vs. Nikola Tesla, I won’t pull your ear, do a search on Youtube, you will find plenty. So yes it’s still the oil cartels, and nuclear power supporters, and even the building of dams that mess up our earth, when we could all be driving cars with regenerative motors and powering our homes and businesses with solid state circuits that pull in all the free energy we need from earth & sky. It’s not even difficult. The epic waste & stupidity of humans who make our energy policy rivals the the first biggest con, i.e. the Federal Reserve system.

  9. interesting— 30 yrs ago   Iwas saying this and Godhas confirmed it. .  the fossil theory just does not work for the volumn of crude.    Also they have already shown crude oil is being made all the time just off the mouth of the mississipps river.   Oil is a gift from God and we will not run out until the end of time as we know it.

  10. Dinosaurs are not the sole generators of oil.  Dinosaurs were alive only in the Mesozoic (Triassic, Jurassicc, Cretaceous).  However, we find oil in the Cambrian, Ordovician, Silurian, Carbonifereous – all prior to the dinosaur existence.  We also find oil in sediments more recent than those of Mesozoic Age.  The Russian’s theory of oil generation is still far from belong proven, as are some of the processes of petroleum generation.  
    There are many very complex processes that control the accumulation of petroleum in oil & gas reservoirs.  It is impossible to exactly calculate oil or gas in place in a reservoir, and  estimating its recovery is far from and exact science.    .

    • Man: if you are a scientist then you are not a very good one: becuase the Mesozoic etc periods are nothing but a farse!  These time periods were all designed to take peoples mind away from the TRUTH…In the beginning GOD created the heaven and the earth..I studied Archeology and geograpy etc and all that crap that the evolutionists come/came up with is just a bunch of nonesense by a bunch of God denying individuals who want to be the Authority instead of God being that “FINAL AUTHORITY:  The will find that they are wrong, in due time..until them PROOF IT OUT..IF God is who he says he is, then PROVE that!!

    • Question: How does Crude oil go from that to Gas-O-Line?  Well..the answer is: Crude oil is heated and when it is heated, at a certain temperate, that crude oil gives up a certain gas, be it Desiel fuel or Aviation fuel of DFM, or gasoline, or karosene etc and the last thing is whats left, and what we mix with little pebbels and use for asphalt on our streets…thats what it is…so why are we paying so much for it…IN a word…GREED!!

    • scientist5 you’re no scientist.  You’re a bilious bag of bloviating blathering bluster and bs.  Did you even finish high school?  Your immaturity is showing.

      • I hate to disappoint you, but I have an MS in Geology, am a Professional Engineer.  I have beren practicing my profession as Petroleum Engineer since 1952.  I am also a Certified Professional Geologist going back top 1948.  I have no comment to make about your level of intelligence.

        • scientist5 not disappointed at all!!  I’m aghast!!  Your extremely poor communication skills and lack of technical knowledge tells me you should go back and get a refund!!!!
          But then again, you’re just posturng with bullsquat!!

        • Bye, bye.  I had hoped to have meaningful discussions, not idioltic comments.  I will not waste anymore time on this subject with you.  Don’t expect any further comments form me.

  11. Further to generation of petroleum – again, highly complex.  It is accepted that all sorts of rganisms are involved, plants, animal included.  Yes, and possibly from deep within the Earth – so far this remains a theroy to be proven.

  12. Of course science is wrong once again but have ANY of you Dimwits wondered why no oil company with the hundreds of billions of $$ they have to explore ALL think “Abiotic Oil” is a JOKE???

    • BobE – abiotic oil is still a scinmetific theory.  Who told you that oil companies are not investigating it.  The Russian scientists are obviopusly trying to prove the theory.
      Unfortunately, none of us can walk through the rocks to check this all out.  All we have to go on is a hole about 6″ in diameter once we get below several thousand feet – we base conclusions on this data.  Of course, none of us the brilliant mind you have – a mind that is capable of examining and determining the entire volume of the sediments and on to the magma below the Earth’s outer crust.  Wow”  You are a scientist after all.

  13. All of this is like the people that believed the earth was flat.Come on really?They have been extracting hundreds of billions of gallons per year and we were suppose to believe that all of this oil came from dinosaurs and vegetation.Really?What about the vein of high pressure oil spewing from the gulf that they can’t seem to stop?It originates under Kentucky and extends all they way to  Venezuela?All oil fields are refilling from the shale and coal deposits that are under extreme pressure and forced to the surface.I as a kid alooong time ago didn’t by it then.Hell at that time they were selling as science that lighting came from clouds bumping together. We are now seeing that global warming is coming from exhaling carbon dioxide.What do you think that they are going to do next?Charge us for every breath that we exhale by taking the life span of the average person and charge them for pollution?I think we are smarter then they give us credit for and we need to force the issue by firing anyone that believes otherwise.

    • Of course an uneducated idiot like you is smarter than everyone on the planet that’s spent their entire life studying this issue! Who could argue with that?

  14. Some coal has fossils embedded in it. I’ve seen it.
    But, there are many different types of coal.
    Just because some coal has fossils in it doesn’t mean that all of it does.
    And even if all coal had fossils, –that doesn’t mean that God didn’t create it.
    If God created the whole world, couldn’t he create coal with fossils embedded in it?
    Suppose I were to write a book with the beginning starting before our solar system was formed.
    And, in the ending, I might bring in a black hole that rolls the system into a very hot black dot. It could be maybe a couple years in our future or maybe 2000 years from now. Well, I haven’t decided yet.
    Even though each page in the book represents a moment in time, a person reading the book could have his mind transverse millenniums simply by turning to the back of the book.
    Can you comprehend a being so powerful that he could speak our universe into existence as easily as you or I could dictate a book?
    Many Christians think they have to oppose science but that’s not true.
    1 Timothy 6:20   O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.
    It didn’t say to oppose science, it said to avoid that opposition.
    Science is simply the study of nature.
    Nature is the way God made things.
    Scientists often get things wrong, –but science will prove the truth in the end.

  15. Whatever is going on, it’s amazing how new reserves of oil get found even though we should have run out by now.  This does not cause me to have any great faith in science.

    • Hey Rich: it’s NOT the sciece that is the problem, it’s man and his desire to falsefy the truth!  remember the 70’s when they said oil was inshort supply and yet they still got it and now have so much more today!  Plain and simply:  the LOVE of money is the “ROOT of all evil!  1 Tim 6:10 KJV

    • Facts or facts.  Yes, we are finding more oil, but very few can be listed as major finds.  Richard, having no faith in science does not disporve science, it only proves ignorance.

    • Richard Gibbard – The problem comes when people put faith in science. Science is just what man knows today. But it isn’t fortune telling science. Science is historical. So it is the best man can do. But it is always behind and subject to change.

      • Yeah, but the BEST, and MOST accurate and “PERFECT Science book is in FACT, a King James Bible!  The KJV talks about the weather, hurricanes and tornadoes and hibernationa nd fingerprints and earthquakes and UFO’s and the TV and the telegraph and the telephone and the Helicopter and the airplane and even the Christmas tree and evaporation and weather circuits and  even war and when to wage that war and even neuclear bombs and nuc war!  There is so much science and scientific facts in the KJV that people won’t read it!  they think is only to tell about religious things…NOT true!  that Book is a Science book and History book and even a dictionary as well. It is a spelling and a reading and a grammer book !  The only thing is; the KJV is many, many years ahead of mankind and the words Tornado and helicopter, airplane and hurricane hadn’t even been coined yet, so you get it in the language of the times!   How would God right a book 2000 to 1000 years ahead of mankind, and expect all generations to know what things meant in all generations…What does a light bulb mean to a man in 400 b.c. etc IT was written to appeal to all ages from 4000 b.c. to the present!

        • Homer57 – The Bible is always true. But since it isn’t written as a text book, people often interpret it based on whatever they want it to say… so it is difficult to get people to leave it at face value. When they do, it is always helpful in science. When they try to use their own form of logic, the Bible is just another book.

        • That’s right friend..I have an old saying that an old man of 92 years old told me and it stuck;  he said it is not what the Bible means, (Gen 40:8)  BUT what does it say!  Meaning man can make the bible say what he wants it to say, or mean what he wants it to say…i.e. pro 24;26/2 Sam 1:26/Mark 10:21 etc (Homosexuals use these verses to justify their sin…and also Job 12:6..to justify robbery and that it is OK…see…I always take it for what it says and IF i do not understand it, and i don’t many times, I STUDY it, and search it, and seek the answer and compare it w/other verses and bibles to “SEE” how it compares!  The TRUTH comes from the Author, and is seen by comparison and by Opposites!!  Otherwise…the secret things belong unto God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and our children forever….Deut 29:29 KJV  thanks

  16. (Yelling & Cursing now) 
    Look Dammit,..I Am BobE,..LISTEN TO ME! I Am Smarter than ALL of you! I am VERY Important! Can’t you tell?

  17. You Christian Taliban people are nuts. Oilfields are running out. The North Sea only has 20-30 years left. Nort Sea oil peaked in 1999 and production is now down about 50%. Why do you think they’ve resorted to shale oil in places like Canada? Why do you think they’re now fracking to get natural gas? The only reason supply has not diminished is that new oil and gas fields have been found and drilling technology has improved.

    • Christian…Taliban…Hmmmm two words that do NOT go together, Christ like, (Acts 11:26 KJV) and Muhammed like..no not compatable.  You know:  when I was real young, I wanted to put my hands on the hot stove and got them spanked, and i also wanted to run in the house etc  i wanted to do things that weren’t good for me…Dad and mom, told me…NO son, you better not do that, you could get hurt or burnt or a knot on your head or worse….I “DID NOT” understand…that is until i did get burnt or hurt…then I did understand!  Have you ever BEEN a “Christian”?  Yeah, I know, I wasn’t always either…I thought they were NUTS too, as you..yeah I did…UNTIL, I became a “CHRISTIAN”!  Then i found out that it was I that was the one who was NUTS!  They, now I, had something I couldn’t “SEE” or understand…so I rejected what was offered and yet now:  I KNOW, and NOW, “I SEE”  Maybe you should SEE First and then….see     1 PETER 3:18 KJV…PROVE IT and then SEE!!

      • Homer57 who’s beliefs do you think this describes? Ideological purity, compromise as weakness, a fundamentalist belief in scriptural literalism, denying science, unmoved by facts, undeterred by new information, a hostile fear of progress, a demonization of education, a need to control women’s bodies, severe xenophobia, tribal mentality, intolerance of dissent and a pathological hatred of the U.S. government?? The Taliban? The Tea party? actually BOTH hence the name “American Taliban”

        • BobE Homer57 it’s doubtful that even you take yourself seriously.  you obviously live to assault and demean.  Is this because of you’re own inferiority complex?  Compensating somehow?  You don’t “debate”., you assault.  Your words have no meaningful context outside of your own self loathing and projected ignorance.  Good luck with that!!
          Doesn’t make you happy, either!!  You’re still lonesome and wishing someone would respect your “intelligence”.  Ain’t working, is it?

        • You are NOT obviously ideologically pure or fundamental in your beleifs..but you do have a hardness about anyones beliefs but your own!  You are afraid of what you do NOT know and can not comprehend the same! you are stuck in your comfort zone of UNREALITY!  Just because your friends or parents told you something doesn’t make it right!  Just because someone tells you something you reject doesn’t make it wrong!  Jesus Christ told the jews he was God in the flesh and they believed him not and were wrong, because he proved it!  BobE  there is NO way to tell a child that the stove is hot; don’t touch it, or don’t run in the house you can get hurt….or NO one can tell you or me what it is like to parachute out of a plane!  It has to be experinced to believe it or “SEE”  Maybe, you..one day will just get the nerve and just say…This sounds NUTS, but i am going to prove what it is and find out or KNOW why….Maybe, but i doubt it..people like you just think they have all the answers…so as much as I’d like for you to “SEE”…i can’t force it or make a movie of what i am talking about…Just SEE this, if you will, ( 1 PETER 3:18 KJV) if NOT…what else can I say?  i did try!!

        • BobE Homer57
          Try “whose” beliefs, who’s represents a contraction of who is. You really ought to try spellcheck before you continue to impress yourself with the puerile ejecta that spews from your vacant pie hole. You wouldn’t know purity ideologically or otherwise so judge not lest ye not be judged. Fundamentalism is a doctrine notably of Islam, take it up with them! On the other hand science is theory, it exists as a moving target that requires denial for the sake of further exploration.    Therefore science, by it’s very nature, is inexact because the pendulum of discovery requires constantly pushing the envelope! Compromise is weakness, guess you’ve never been in a firefight! New information is yesterday’s news, progress measured by sound decision making trumps progress for it’s own sake, damn the outcome. Demonization of education is justified when education consists of indoctrination. Abortion is murder, a choice your mother could have made and one less atheist would have been the result. Dissent is required when tyranny rears it’s ugly head, which in turn engenders a pathological hatred of government. The Constitution is the law of the land, violating it with impunity drives a population to hate government.  We’re not xenophobic, we are a nation of immigrants……….legal ones. We also don’t take kindly to terrorists invading our borders intent on doing us harm and if that is not your personal concept of xenophobia, when they come for you, you could cry and hope for the best. Tribal mentality, there is no American Taliban, that is a Jihadist tag, whereas The Tea Party helped push the formation of this great nation toward reality, to turn it into a childish pejorative, is infantile. Now go troll somewhere else and leave real Americans like Homer57 alone or better yet crawl back in your hole, pull the rock over the top and stay there!

        • scientist5 why don’t you cut the crap; you’re no scientist.  Considering your lack of articulate speech or posting any real knowledge here,  its doubtful that you even have any college behind you!
          But, like BobE, you sure do like to posture yourself as someone more intelligent than everybody else! 
          What a pretender!!!

        • RedMeat – oviously you consider yourself a genius.  No further comment is needed.  I had hoped the discussion would remian on a high plane, but I give up.

        • scientist5 no I don’t.  but I don’t go around beating up other people and pretending to be smarter than them like you do!
          The proof is in the pudding.  Your recipe is a disaster!!

        • What Ignorance do you speak of:  I am ignorant about many things, but well versed in others…so what do you speak of in that regard?

    • obamabinbadagin – LOL. Right, because the oil companies are so glad that there is NG fracking going on… Also, shale oil production is the result of better technology, not oil fields running dry.  But it is true that some refill and others run dry… just like water wells.

      • LetsFindOut obamabinbadagin 
        First of all what’s with the Christian Taliban insult? You commie progressive nut jobs love to hurl vitriol at Christians in an useless effort to validate your atheism. So how does it feel to be the butt of a disparaging comment. In your case as they say if the shoe fits……..By the way the Taliban is strictly an Islamic faction! Nice try troll!
        Now on to your ignorant rant about oilfields running out……NOT, in fact many dry wells are being reinvested in new oil as the process has nothing to do with fossils but is a by-product of the process stimulated by hydrocarbons in the molten core below the mantle. The process is ongoing and it has been speculated that it occurs in other bodies in our solar system, where a molten core exists producing the byproducts of hydrocarbons. SO running out of oil……….NOT! Even the government’s leading petrochemical geologists, in a recent finding, stated that the United States has more oil and gas resources and thus oil and gas reserves that outpace the rest of the world combined.
        Chicken littles infecting blogs with BS, outside reasonable scientific due diligence, is comical at best!

  18. 7% – 10% of the fracking methane is escaping into the atmosphere and the water supply.
    Methane is many time more active as a greenhouse gas then CO2.
    Polluted water created by this process will permeate the water supply forever.

    As the atmosphere heats up and the perma-frost melts the huge quantity of once frozen debris underneath it decays, releasing ever increasing quantities of methane. Once this takes place the world will “spin out of control”. 
    Oil companies will spend billions to make them look good in the media… Can you say, Rush Lintball?

    • You know more about fracing than peetroleum engineers or geologist.  It is obvious that you cannmot be helped – if it were ignorance I could explain this all to you, but your stupidity is impossible to  reason with much less explain anything.

    • So…you say the world will spin out of control: well, sir, on that part you have it right. In case you haven’t seen the results of this, see the currant events and all the hurricanes, tornadoes (Job 37:13 KJV) the disasters and Earthquakes and meteors and UFO’s and tsunami’s and crop failures and birds and fish and mammals dying by the thousands etc.  The earth itself has been said to had been knocked off its axis by about 4 mins..yeah, I’d say you are tright this earth is going off it’s rocker and headed for certain disaster.  Matt 24;5-12/Acts 2:19-20  The earth will also be burnt w/fire so….all the methane or CO2 etc will not matter   I’d concentrate on your “Eternal” soul…rather than the Earth!  1 Peter 3:18 KJV

  19. Question: for all who read this:  which Bible is “The Word(s) of God?  Which Bible did God send down thru man, to write it out and put it on paper and in a book?  Which one is it and which one is INNFALLABLE and INNERANT?  Please tell me which ones is complete in every way and gives a man the “WAY” in which he must go to get to a final “REST”?  What do you base this answer upon, and tell me the facts!  Curious!

    • Homer57 Good question because they are all different. Here’s another Name one of the three passages in the gospels that was added at least 100 years after the original.
      I’ll give you the answers
      1) The Adulterous woman (Pericope Adulterae) does not exist in any manuscripts we have of John until the 5th century, meaning it was likely added somewhere around 4 centuries after the fact.
      2) The ending of Mark was a late addition as well, not appearing in the codex sinaticus nor vaticanus.  The original ending stops with the two women finding the tomb empty, being scared, and telling no one.  Additions include Picking up snakes, not dying from snakebites, faith healing, casting out demons from Mary Magdeline, multiple appearences, Apocalyptic allusion, casting out devils, speaking in tongues, drinking poison, and jesus instantly disappearing (which is different from other gospels)
      3) the Johnine Comma is in 1 John, not in John. “there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.” This is considered a very late addition, in the middle ages

      • Question: How can anyone who does NOT believe in God desire to KNOW the answers to these questions when he will not believe that there is a “GOD”?       To answer your inquiries here is my answer.   1. After Studying manuscript evidence for 2 years here is what i found.  The Subject that you mentioned did exist but ONLY in the Textus Receptus MS’s of the Syrian-Byzantine MS’s of the Syrian type MS’s, and NOT in the Alexandrain MS’s…It was erradicated for the Position assumed by the Alexandrain Position.  Origen and his group removed these Verses to fit their position.  I have not found the subject of what you have said, and so I also have to ask;  have you seen or studied all of the Thousands of MS’s to make a call and come to a conclusion such as you have!    CONT’…

      • CONT’    2. The ending Of Mark….read it first and study the ending of both its content and context and see that IN fact it did show up and was included in many scripts and MS’s, However:  the Alexandrian scholars did in FACT, remove this ending in all Alexandrian MS’s for publish in all new Bibles today. IF there was a differance in other gospels it was because each Gospel portrays the crucifiction and Jesus as the Son of man, the SON of God and His diety and also to the Jews…each had the same story but to a certain people or to a certain flavor for a certain point to be made…That you will have to Discern thru study!   IT is NOT what IT meant, BUT what it said..Gen 40:8   CONT’

        • Homer57 You may be the person that can answer a few questions I have that NOBODY seems to be able to answer. Tell me what happened on Easter the day that your most important doctrine was born.
          What time did the women visit the tomb?
          Who were the women?
          Was the tomb open when they arrived?
          Who was at the tomb when they arrived?
          Where were these messengers situated?
          What did the messenger(s) say?
          Did the women tell what happened?
          When Mary returned from the tomb, did she know Jesus had been resurrected?
          When did Mary first see Jesus?
          Could Jesus be touched after the resurrection?
          After the women, to whom did Jesus first appear?
          Where did Jesus first appear to the disciples?
          Did the disciples believe the two men?
          What happened at the appearance?
          Did Jesus stay on earth for a while?
          Where did the ascension take place?

        • You Know BobE:  you had asked me these same, or similiair questions a while back, and to the best of what i know, I answered them!  what is it that you really want?  Are you beginning to doubt what you think?  Maybe you should…I have been there and i did the same thing…I thought i was Ok , yet someone who cared enough, stuck w/me, and i did see the light!  He provoked me and showed me something I could “NOT” ignore!  I thought he was a NUT, Just because i had never heard what was said!   Truthfully, i was the one who was NUTS and yet INSTEAD of calling him name, as you do, I set out to prove that he was just talking and had no idea what he was saying….So, that is what I did. in the mean time, and to get to the meat of the matter, IT was I who was dead wrong…I found out that what he had said was so right, I could not go against what he did say…So, I am to this point !  CONT’

        • Homer57 NO, you never answered but if you give me at least one plausible account of all of the facts I would be VERY impressed indeed

        • Now: If you can tell me what you really want and make me understand why you are so adament against what sooooo many have said; and that comes out the same as all have said, i will again answer those questions!  I will NOT waste my time doing so for a man who can’t see what should be seen, because you reject what is being said!  I am (ONLY) suggesting this…get a KJV, and any other bible, and read it, and read the other one as well…NO you just have to do a verse and/or a page by page check and see…or you may (suggestion) just read and IF, I mean IF we are all NUTS and NOTHING happens when you read the Bible then we can admit that the WORD(S) of God have no effect!  As you have: I am NOT going to call you names etc, BUT as a two year old child, you can’t see that “The stove is HOT and you should not run in the house….as a blind man can not understand what green is, neither can you!  PROVE me WRONG, and I will admit it, BUT first read and SEE….

        • Lastly BobE…there is a better way to get your point(s) across than to condesend to people and curse at them and call them morons, and I forgive you but please….aren’t you more grown up than that?  I am…..I am waiting to answer those questions when you answer mine…OK

        • BobE, I am ready to give the answers as i am able, It will have to be a bit later, i must go back to work, BUT, If you are NOT impressed by the TRUTH, then why come to me…It is NOT me..i am just a messenger…..and besides what will the TRUTH mean to a man who rejects everything anyone has ever said on this site?  That is fact, and i have been following you etc so..what could it possibly do for you!!  I am to the point that I am not sure you want to do anything but be the Devils Advocate!!  Am I wrong?

        • Homer57
          You may be right. The fact is you cannot answer the questions I asked because each gospel contradicts the other.
          Thomas Paine tackled this matter two hundred years ago in The Age of Reason, stumbling across dozens of New Testament discrepancies:”I lay it down as a position which cannot be controverted,” he wrote, “first, that the agreement of all the parts of a story does not prove that story to be true, because the parts may agree and the whole may be false; secondly, that the disagreement of the parts of a story proves the whole cannot be true.”

        • BobE Homer57 – That is like saying there were 4 witnesses to a robbery. But they all had different stories. Therefore, the robbery must not  have really taken place. It couldn’t possibly be that they all saw it from a different perspective and wrote what they saw…. Or that they told their angle based on the audience they were addressing… That would be too easy.

        • No, that is NOT what I said:  To clarify, I said…there were (more than) 4 witnesses, and each witness (the 4 in each Gospel, emphesised a differant aspect of each gospel.  Matt emohesised the generation of Jesus Christ Mark emphesised the Jesus Christ as a servant, and Luke as ‘The son of man, nad his human side, and John Emphesised jesus Christ as the Son of God and His Diety! All stories are actual and factual but not all emphesis the same thing…They all witness to the facts.  Have you ever been in a position as a Police office and taken a statement from each witness?  they will, if the witness is truthful, come out w/the same facts but told as per each witnesses perspective!  CAN “YOU” find fault w/Facts, and can YOU refute those facts!!  They alllllll came out exactly as spoken!  Now tell me: what lies and false statements can you bring in this matter?  please tell me and enumerate each one you find!!  I have yet to find any fault in any verse chapter or Book in the KJV bible!!  So..tell me, where are they?

        • Truth told: yet IF you compare what was said by all the witnesses, THEY all agree with each other and IF you also note that each gospel was written in differant times, places…John was written on the island of patmos, but he did see the events that went on and if you also again see the dates they were well after the facts and events..so to say that the apostles etc were able to put all that happened to memory and make it all come out as it did and to make the events ond propecies that were foretold in the O.T from 1000 years to 400 years come out as written is about as possible as skating on the ice on the moon!  Someone who KNEW and foresaw those events was involved in the writings by each apostle/disciple etc !!   Cont

        • Cont’  If the witnesses and the evidence can NOT be proved beyond a shadow of doubt:  then it is a lie…i.e. evolution…can NOT be fact and is a Theory, even thought millions believe and espose this hypocracy.  Facts ALWAYS stand upon their own merit and can NOT be proven wrong, but ONLY fact!  i.e. the 1st three laws of thermodynamics!

        • BobE LetsFindOut Homer57 – Which would have nothing to do with the Gospels. Three of them are referred to as the Synoptic Gospels specifically because they have overlapping events described. But in cases where they tell the same event from a different angle, that is normal and just like the example I stated. Witnesses to the same event should not have identical retellings of the event. They are unique witnesses. In fact, it is when the stories are identical that th authorities get suspicious.

      • CONT’   3. You do have this right that in fact, the verse you speak of is 1 John 5;7 KJV was not supported by the Majority text and was not supported by the MS’s as having been in most of them….But given the FACT that the KING JAMES Bible is a Spiritual book and The Author, is NOT man….the KJV Translators put that verse in and it was vindicated by other later discoverd MS’s and it was substantiated at a later time..YOU do have to admit that we/you are not KNOWLEDGABLE enough to know all that needed to be included in the tRUTH….BUT God is a GOD who does KNOW, and HE did provoke those who were given to the TRANSLATION and they installed it!  Read the verse and ask yourself:  why is this verse included and what does it say, and why would anyone NOT want to install it as such!  My guess is:  it is the referance to the TRINITY, and an UNGODLY man, who deceives didn’t want it included…yet it was, against all odds!  Go figure!  BobE  take the blinders off and consider….someone smarter that you and I:  KNEW what He was doing when He did this!!  1 Peter 3:18 KJV

        • Homer57
          You’re a true MORON! The King James bible was not given by God but was a translation by a group of scholars in the early 17th century who based their rendition on a faulty Greek text.

        • OK BobE you say i am a Moron, you are entitled to your opinion…Hoewever, IF the KIJV was not given by God, then what Bible was?  IF God is who he says He is and yet if he doesn’t do what he said he would do then he is NOT reliable or truthful, then how can you or anyone trust him, and why is it fact that so many (Esp in the time period from 1500-1900) were myrtyrd for their beliefs..Who would be burnt at the stake etc for belief in a liar or lunatic…Just look at the FRUITS of the KJV verses any other Book(s) or papers…The KJV raised up many nations, including this one, and was the ONLY viable bible at that time!  The Industrial revelution the Increase in Knowledge the explorations of the world, the inventions, and discoveries etc.   CONT”

        • BobE, You have 3 choices:  God is either a Liar, a Lunitic, or He is God…If he is a liar, then how come NO ONE, anywhere can find fault w/what was written in the KJV…NO mistakes made, and you can not find one either!  The Bible came out EXACTLY as it was written to a “T”..Prove it wrong!  IF He was a Lunatic, NO one would have given him and creedance, and he would have been institutionalized as crazy…and dismissed!  did that happen? No!  So, the ONLY chilce is: He has to be God because NO one could do or say the things He said and foretell the future and have it come out they way he said it!  THE Problem is: ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY!  People think they are their own absolute authority and they are NOT!!

        • Lastly:  REFUSAL to believe or understand the TRUTH is still NO excuse for what has been said!  All you have to do is do what the KJV (ONLY) says to do….STUDY…2 Tim 2:15…that’s an IMPERATIVE COMMAND!  NO WAY OUT, If you want the truth…..!!!!!!!

        • Homer57The first problem with the argument is that it assumes the efficacy of the bible. It assumes that the depiction of Jesus in the bible is historically accurate and an accurate depiction of his character, including (but not limited to) the words and claims attributed to him.
          There is no first hand contemporary evidence that the words attributed to Jesus are his own as all accounts were written by the earliest of 80 AD (verification needed). It can also be argued that due to the discrepancies between accounts no quote in the bible can be held as the true words of Jesus. However, the fact that a person called Jesus was crucified for blasphemy is regarded by some new testament scholars to be one of the most certain claims of ancient history (Bart Erhman). As this is the biggest claim verifiable evidence can conclude, Occam’s Razor states that it should be assumed that Jesus held no divine relationship or power unless additional evidence can be provided Based on the shaky grounds of the first premise, the argument creates a false dilemma to suggest that Jesus as appearing in the gospels is either telling the truth or not. This of course neglects the obvious possibility that he is a legend, in which case his claims (or those claims attributed to him) are neither true or false, but partially or entirely fictional.
          Nearly everything that is “known” about the life of Jesus, or his claims of godhood, come from the bible which Christians regard as inerrant but atheists do not. Jesus may not have existed, or he may not have said all the things that were attributed to him, to the extent that his teachings were good he may have copied ideas from other people.
          The premise also ignores hybrid possibilities. For instance, that Jesus may in fact have been a lunatic who said true things (much like an insane person who thinks he’s Napoleon may still be able to tell you the correct day of the week or the prevailing weather conditions) or that he might have been the Lord and a liar (unlikely, but inconvenient for Lewis’ intended point). At heart, the dilemma commits the genetic fallacy of assuming that an idea from a bad source is itself inevitably tainted.
          Finally, the premise also ignores the very real possibility that Jesus existed and did say some of the things attributed to him, but may have been misinterpreted. Many believers will refer to themselves as “Children Of God” (or similar phrasings), but they presumably do not mean this literally. In a similar fashion, if Jesus did refer to himself as the “Son Of God,” he may have intended it as a metaphor that was misunderstood by subsequent audiences. (In fact “Son of God” meant a righteous man, the Messiah or a prophet. Incidentally Christians sometimes describe themselves collectively as children of god while believing that they are ordinary human beings. This did not in any way mean the “physical” son of God, a very pagan belief that Jews considered very blasphemous.) Additionally, the term ‘Lord’ is a term of nobility and respect that has subsequently been confused to be synonymous with ‘God’. When the disciples call Jesus ‘Lord’ they are not necessarily confirming a belief that he is God. Even accepting the first two false premises, the so called evidence for the exclusion of lunatic and liar possibilities is questionable at best.
          Many apologists, including some who are qualified psychologists, attempt to show that Jesus could not have been a lunatic. There are two major problems with this.First, is a complete lack of evidence. The idea of performing a real psychological diagnosis on someone that has been presumed dead for 2000 years, based solely on a few scarcely descriptive tales, from the very book that purports to reveal the truth of his divinity, is nothing short of laughable.Secondly, they make a case of special pleading. Despite the fact that Jesus isn’t depicted as a rabid, uncontrollably raving maniac, doesn’t mean he was necessarily sane. Any of the psychologists who attempt to claim Jesus was not insane would have no hang ups about committing a person today that made similar claims. Indeed if Jesus made his claims today, he would fit right in at the asylums full of other people that think they’re God, Jesus, Napoleon etc.
          Jesus could also have been a liar. Lewis disregards this because he claims Jesus was a great human teacher. However, much of Jesus’ advice was bad advice And regardless of his lesson content, being a great teacher doesn’t by fiat logically exclude the possibility that he could lie. Jesus also had great motive to lie. Despite the trouble Brian found himself in, there are presumably a great many selfish benefits to being mistakenly considered a human deity.
          Additionally, some forms of the liar, lunatic or lord argument further commit the fallacy of begging the question, by accepting the ‘biblical miracles as evidence for the lord’ option, which of course a priori assumes the conclusion of Jesus’ divinity that the very argument attempts to prove.

        • Efficacy: you talk about producing results:  Now that is a good one:  Just LOOK at the results the KJV produced…from about 1500 to 1900 that time period is known as the Philadelphia church age: and in that 400 years the effects of the KJV bible produced many countries that to this day remain major player (altough they are fading fast due to a turn from their standing position)  Look at Germany w/Martin Luther and up to about Keiser Wilhem…a KJV was their Bible,and they were a great nation…England…translated the KJV and look what they became…they ruled the waves and the sun never set on the English empire…not now, they abandoned the KJV in 1882…The U.S.A. you already know what this nation did and now…what is happening?  Many other countries had the same results…Cont’

        • You said “ASSUNES” the efficacy of the bible: Ok , I’ll give you that as an argument, but if that it true;  here is the proof..the testimony and proof that the Bible is and what it says it is is this, “FRUIT”  I mean what the KJV Bible produced!  Its date of 1611 coinsided with the Empires of the Germany, England, the U.S.A.  Australia etc being raised up, and also the industrial revelution and the INCREASE in Knowledge and medicine and Inventions and exploration and the militaries etc  Missionaries were sent out world wide by this nation and several others. However there has NOT ever been any other Bible/Book  that has had the same effect..all bibles, out of Alexandria egypt have done nothing but cause wars and poverty and degredation etc   Cont”

        • Cont’   You also said Jesus could have been a liar:  wow that’s one heck of an accusation having shown NO proof:  however it is biblical See Isa 41:21  The Lord said, Produce your cause and bring forth your strong reasons, so….where are yours BobE?  Anyway:  lest we forget IF Jesus Christ is a liar, tel me how, after you read Jere 36  In that the “ORIGINALS” written in a “ROLL” (one reason why i say there are NO more Originals)  were cut by the King and BURNT!  Then the Holy Spirit, GOD, had another set dictated to jeremiah and he even added many like words…See Jer 36:1-2, 6, 17-18 and 23-32.   So you say, Jesus could have lied…well, a Jew KNOWS that the Lineage of Jesus Christ goes all the way back to Adam and comes forth to Christ  (See Matt ch 1 and Luke ch 3 so those names couild not have just been made up and those are in the record and time did NOT deminish this line of thinking…  Cont’

        • Cont’  So, IF Jesus Christ could have lied, don’t you think there would have been someone there to prove it:  They sure wanted to accuse him and prove Him a liar, and it has been over 2000 yeras since Calvary.  Keep also in mind that it has been anywhere from 1500 b.c. to 400 b.c when the o.t. was written.  there are examples of prophets in the bible who mention each other in each of the books and yet they never knew each other.(to many to mention but I will provide a few examples here..Matt 8:4, Mark 1:44, Luke 2:22 and Hebrews 11 tells about the O.T. propets and kings etc  READ it..How is this possible w/out someone KNOWING?  and Is that a Liar!  OR is that Someone showing the PROOF of the TRUTH!!!

        • Lastly BobE:  you are taxing, and i don’t mind IF the desired result comes to fruit:  However you slander me in one breath, call me an idiot etc (and i don’t care anyway but) then you say i am answering your questions etc.  So, w/all that you have been sent, you have to make a decision, ONE way or the other…you have to prove this right or wrong, and since it is fact and can’t be proven wrong, you now have two more choices..Accept it or reject it!  You choice, because as a 2 year old child can NOT understand that the stove is hot, and a blind man can’t understand color:  you also can not understand spiritual matters!  I don’t know what else to say except PROVE ALL THINGS, HOLD FAST that which is TRUE!!

        • This man is a blithering IDIOT, and a God denying moron!  he calls God a liar and he thinks he is the final authority, and he is NOT:  there is NO Final Authority BUT God!!  I put NO faith in man, IF GOD is NOT able to get His word from the beginning to today, then He is NOT God NOR is he able to be trusted!  This man is a spititual pervert!

        • BobE: You said that the words spoken by Jesus and attributed to him were not proven to be the words he spoke: really, what proof do you base this on?  I studied archeology and geography and church history for 3 years and I can tell you that this is just not true!  Archeology proves that the words that were spoken were in fact spoken by Jesus Christ!  They are documented in many archoeological findings thru out many countries in the mid east and africa…Moses is also mentioned in many archeological findings..How about the rosetta stone and many Babylonian findings and recorded papyrus and vellum and stone findings.  Man, you limit God…Why couldn’t a God who framed the world, preserve His word and bring it forth for all to “SEE” and STUDY!  Lest you forget:  IF God can NOT do all he claimed and claims and can not preserve his word, then he is not much of a god and is certainly not a god anyone would follow or be martyred for, and then there is nothing to base the facts upon!  Where would the “Final Authority be than…man?

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